The SFFaudio Podcast #863 – The Messiah Of The Cylinder by Victor Rousseau, (8 hours 3 minutes) read by Brian Fullen for LibriVox, followed by a discussion of it. Participants in the discussion include Jesse and Will Emmons,
Talked about on today’s show:
Everybody’s Magazine, June – September 1917, a book, 2 years later The Apostle Of The Cylinder, who is the messiah?, 3 cylinders, our protagonist, a prophecy, who made the prophecy, serious problems with this book (it being good), intersting stuff in it, describing it to Eric [S. Rabkin], Brave New World, We, 1984, before those books, a response to When The Sleeper Awakes, The Sleeper Wakes, being a good book, The Marching Morons [by C.M. Kornbluth], transported into the future, finds the world different, in London, a chamber, a tube, his riff on that book, 18 years earlier, bad internet, request times out, messianic element, events happening, a tour of the place, this internet sucks, changed bands, except for us, media, a culture of lack of reading, a lot of speakers, mechanical or electric speakers transmitting ads and propaganda at all times in public places, vivisection, pushing a Christian ending, a one way response to Wells, a line in here, The World Set Free, an American magazine, set in London, set in 1917, written before WWI started, no revision in that serial publication, what part of 1917 were the czars wiped off the map, two 1917 revolutions, provisional government, old calendar, October Revolution in November, the socialist one, three months after, a strange book, it instantly gets things wrong, wrong before it starts, immediately outdated, the Russia stuff, most illiberal, the most rigid, no revolutions that stuck, terror attacks on government officials, a bulwark of stability, housing reform, if you give a mouse a cookie he’s gonna want democracy, eugenics, hate/annoyed by, what makes the book less good, future proof, in the same drawer as Brave New World, This Perfect Day, the protagonist and his romance with a lady, pining gets in the way, more of a generic story, not a science fiction magazine, a scientific romance, Wells doesn’t try to have sympathetic characters, our hero is supposed to be a good guy, duped into the tube, traits, he has no valuable traits, a rousing speech, the holy spirit takes him, The Time Machine, what do we know about the main character, wife or girlfriend, maybe he’s a time lord, meets Weena, not exactly a romance, finding the flower in his pocket, getting to the ideas, showing that sphinx, an ant on top of a pillar, innovative and responsive attack on Wells and pro-science, progress, fundamentally anti-enlightenment book, makes a list, innovative, reading an old book, what people were thinking about back then, this book is superinto eugenics as a thing, blues?, whites?, defectives and non-defectives, rewatching Rome (HBO series), Ivanhoe, brass plaques, slaves wore collars, I am the property of this person, I am a runaway slave, return me for a reward, airplane man, where’s your brass bro?, in the future people aren’t gonna be first name and last name, you’re going to be your social security number, they’re all fuckin slaves, less and more enslaved, the social movement going on in this book, the background, the years in the cylinder, by 1945, the explanation from how we got from 1914ish to 2015ish, were these real forces, if this goes on, eugenics was huge, just prior, eugenics programs, on the downlow, Christianity as a bulwark against eugenics, this force of holding back the horror, The Island Of Doctor Moreau, a horror, literally dogs barking in the vivisection chambers, live bodily into the future, we want Christianity, spiritual immortality, in tension, The Tissue Culture King by Julian Huxley, germ-plasm, lichy telepathic tissue, top-down horrible way, the priests aka the scientists running this stuff, these guys are corruptible, positive interesting stuff in it, not of the stature of Wells, still writing for girls and boys who want to fall in love, could have been really amazing, just interesting, structural problems, might not have chops, a response to Wells, the prophet, seething against Wells in this book, it is a book very much like Brave New World, what thr world building does, John Savage, the man from outside of society, from an Amish reserve, the old fashioned brutal way, no eugenics going on at all, fuck your mom, learn Shakespeare, hooked on drugs, baby making factory tour, Aldous Huxley, dystopia, a way to go, a much better book, 1984 has a romance in it, another subversion, another pulling away of the rug, escape, there’s a girl like me, she’s in the anti-sex league but is excited about sex, censorship business/hates censorship, she’s an op, carrying about her, Lazaroff, Samson, the Pole, on purpose, he’s not as good as those other guys, how programmatic it is, feelings about divorce, how divorce caused all this, a symptom, we have a choice, science priests or regular priests, not allowed to say he’s forgotten his name, takes on the title London, not corrupt, working honestly, major problem with religion, god’s existence, disprove a negative, interesting ideas in Christianity, a religion that worships power, becomes, glosses right over that, essays by Doris Lessing, pattern of medieval Christianity, totalizing regime, European history, accepting divorce, measuring people’s skulls, it used to be the province of a select few at the top, widespread, compared to what we got now, husband in the army, marriage is not the institution that it was, a Hollywood thing now, never been more expensive, life commitment expense vs. a lot of money, divorce is quick, dividing the house, if you don’t have stuff to divide, children, he’s pointing at something that’s real, liberalization of divorce laws, he’s anti-eugenics, even moreso than he is pro-Christianity, tamped down, these two laws, an ending, against socialism, mechanism for picking who the leaders are, hard to argue with him, he just tells you what it is, how this to relates to patterns in modern society, ancient Rome, a new Rome, striking, language changes, MAID, euthanasia, retiring room?, the rest cure, still bad, The Yellow Wallpaper, an insane asylum, the Doc Holiday disease, stinky smoky city, the rest cure is death, a threat, turn in your cash, other euphemisms, some of the mental defectives, some of them are the artists, an art factory, Andy Warhol, a good artist, I should put this on my wall, his Mao print, he’s terrible, a good person, a good artist, Virgil Finlay, Joseph Clement Coll, illustration, stageplay, poetry, fiction, a kind of art, visual art, sculpture, too much religious sculpture, comics are really cool, glutted on comics, what is he saying?, this is a dystopia, among other ways he’s saying it, the kind of artist in my dentist’s office, Thomas Kinkade, he’s the name associated with this style of art, he’s the factory master, make some money, way or reading it subversively, thinking about why is everything so shitty, too close to power, he’s a part of the political structure, regular proles, not his colleagues in the redaction factory, beer at the pub, don’t get involved in politics, policy changes, a new war, always at war with East Asia, Winston Smith, the only way of reading it subversively, going back to Rome, Mark Antony, Octavian, Ciero, Agrippa, characters from history, bad things happen to them, the reason all of this is happening, infighting, hidden political forces, Rome is glutted with slaves, back from Gaul, sending slaves back to the slave market in Rome, regular Romans can’t find work, discontented Rome, the populist candidate, free land, free grain, the forces against Julius Caesar, curry favour, the mob has a lot of power, automation, working on technology like ray guns, light planes, solar powered, electric planes?, cables for some things, storage for sunlight somehow, airplanes everywhere, airscouts, high class thing, airships, 1899, they look more like galleys with paddles, bird wings, a huge shift has come, automation and scientism and eugenics has radically changed the population, a lot of backstory, not super easy to follow, boring in parts, compare this to modern politics in Canada and the United States, Trump, on the side of scientism, Fauci, I am science, next booster, those people hate Trump, Brutus and Cassius and other conspirators kill Julius Caesar, the people backing him, back on team scientism, shifting alliances, don’t want to have a dictator for life, killed for the same reason people are trying to kill Trump, people they have contempt for, what’s going on in here, a trends and forces story hidden in here, my girlfriend back, decadent, the house of freedom, never been outside, Esther, girl from the second cylinder, she was into feminism, a suffragette, first wave feminism, suffragette proof cylinder, threw bombs, a disturbing force in the UK, it got rough, forced feedings, militant in the streets (not in a pussy hat way), Susan B. Anthony, very American version, dispensed with in the future, there’s nothing about it, they don’t want divorce either, largely about being equal to effect politics, his criticism of Wells, his criticism of democracy, a lot of sympathy for that, anarchy expect for these two laws, s a scientist and his beautiful daughter, guy writing cheques, over the coffee cups style dispute, love triangle, locked in a cylinder for 100 years, telegraphed, hoping it wouldn’t turn into a got a get my girl back, a pretty horrible book, very interesting, pretty terrible, points of view, needs Heinlein to step in, an old man argue with a young guy, this all happened as you know, Jim, a guy touring, people making mistakes, that’s how people were under that system, make assumptions all the time, bad writing, just bad writing, prophet terminology, fun, he’s not wrong, it’s hard to understate how important Wells is, “rules based order”, that’s not going on, a nominal, why does China exist?, by mid-1944 everything is about the United Nations, the allies, the winners of WWII, the propaganda of the term, vs. the Axis, let’s cement this, they do, China, Russia, United States, Britain, France, what the fuck did France do?, they’re represented just not by the Chinese, WTO, all sorts of systems, war is stupid, League Of Nations, that didn’t work out very well, United Nations worked out great, new boss same as a the old boss with new priests and new laws, not to benefit you and not to benefit me, Vietnam, take your complaint to the U.N., 4 out of 5 of the security council have attacked us, he is the prophet, foreseen, peace bombs, writing 2 serials at the time, got sick right before the final installments were gonna come out, released 10 years later, edited things out, make it less shitty, 4 “great novels”, War Of The Worlds, at least five more, more interesting than The Invisible Man, he’s attacking our prophet rather than being a prophet himself, vivisection bad, eugenics bad, divorce is bad, who are the people who initiate abortions, an unwanted baby, shoot some arrows, when was this, The Pre-Persons, compelling social reason, a lessening of the damage, people raising babies, bad for the cats, destabilizing, Meg-Will creature, Silverberg’s solution, trial marriage, if you let the time expire, a car you leased, the problem with marriage, for better or for worse, if Charlotte Perkins Gilman had written it, a much smarter lady, not as sharp as she was, not qualified to be a mom, Herland, unqualified, a huge commitment, hard to be in a relationship, do shit all the time, what you’re eating for dinner everyday for the rest of your life, crisis management, constant, lessens as time goes by, you can’t trap me into saying divorce is a good thing on the whole, terminate, unmitigated social good?, need to be in, a system that makes everything unstable, if you don’t move, two people have to work now instead of one, as a percentage, a lot of instability, women being in the workforce does the same thing as automation and importing a lot of slaves, breadwinner, what do we need men for?, raising babies, milk factories, other aspects of child rearing, put in daycare, the dude’s job is a support role, go to the grocery store and get some more diapers, change the diapers, through the milk, 7 or 8 or 10, the mom can go get a job then, women want to have the vote, it’s good that everybody have a vote?, provides legitimacy, upcoming election, provide that legitimacy, are they wise not to vote?, giving money, puts you on a team, the best of a bad set of choices, a multi-party system, least worst option, most don’t choose either option, even wise, a rational choice calculation, bad for everyone for a third of the population to say I will not be involved in civics, all bad, a good life decision, they’re excluded, the exclusion story, not excluded from the legitimation of the reins of power, Harvard writes a letter back, Bryan Alexander, diversity statement, not very compelling, in order to make them good they would have to lie, I’m the only black Korean, from a rooftop, we can do economic hardship, when Harvard and Yale and Princeton used to exclude Jews, so they can include you, you could pretend to be queer, they want to know what it is, Ivy League American universities, picking the elite for the government of the United States, they can’t, first of all you’re Chinese, if you were an American Chinese gay, diversity stuff, counteracted by legacy admissions, private institutions, it’s portfolio with a campus, second largest hedgefund, who’s really running the show there, I went to Harvard, I get to be president, they didn’t want him in the club, he’s not our material, right class, wrong way, not your turn, the trends and forces behind, doesn’t get human psychology correct, romance of the romance, a pretty bad movie, 55 Days At Peking (1963), 1900, foreign occupiers, boxer rebellion, semi-religious, righteous society of fists, disgruntled young men getting nationalism, a famine, incompetence, exploitation, Charlton Heston turns to David Niven, you guys think this is a good story, filmed in Spain, you couldn’t film it in China, the boxers are the bad guy, these stupid fools with no weapons, the ideology behind them, kinda like ISIS with no weapons, if you don’t have actual weapons, immune to bullets, an uprising to try and kick out people who carved China up into concessions, parts of China today, the German section, the Italian section, the Japanese, the Austrians and the Germans and the Americans are fighting together against the Chinese, years go buy, we gotta conquer this territory, China is very strong and not cut up and not divided, still the bad guy?, overthrow Grenada, Syria, the Soviets, North Korea, Vietnam a little bigger, he gets it wrong in this book, more of a romance than it is focused on an exploration of the dystopian ideas, Wells was super-wrong, Wells is not perfect, very fuckin smart, world government, corruption, how did the Roman republic end up in the Roman empire, Sulla, Crassus, Pompey, triumvirate guys, adopted dad, changes his first name, bring in a new morality, our women need to be clean, not having divorces all the time, the golden days of the Republic, he’s an emperor, less corruption, making it less corrupt, compared to what, the file is not working, rot, they’re metaphors, most people don’t think Obama was corrupt, fondly remembered, not everybody agreed, disillusioned, the question, more corrupt than previous presidents?, acting like Israel’s got stuff on him, the art of the deal and golf, the businessman’s plot, something Paul doesn’t believe happened, FDR, Smedley Butler, when JFK is assassinated, a Julius Caesar style assassination, you can’t defy us, a patsy, the official narrative, a lot of this stuff going on all the time, subject to it, check out and not be involved, like Winston Smith, a responsibility, by being who he is in that position, much better off not reading the prole feed, the party propaganda is for the party members, kinda interesting, excited, late career, writing mostly for Spicys, sex books, Space Burial, 1941, he died in 1960, a little later than Wells, February 1941, Lew Merril, firing at a tower, abgrabbing a blonde, not that different, laser guns and romance, he can’t bother with it, history of mankind, plans for how to make the world a better place, the cult of science, decimilazation of the clocks, French revolutionary, decimalzed day, a rationalization of the priestly class, rationalization of the language, phonetic, King Sejong, the backstory of Khartoum, Chinese Gordon, an American playing a British named Chinese in Africa, the central badguy was a 3 or 4 time loser to the entrance exams to the civil service, a brother to Jesus Christ, commanding Chinese forces, brother to Mohamed, the Mahdi, Sudan, I am this figure, a prophet style figure, amps up a war, speared by Mahdi forces, ironies, putting out fires, I’m the fireman but the Ray Bradbury style fireman, why are the British involved in domestic Chinese civil wars that win as many people as WWII, gotta make some money, soldiers coming back from the war, captured slaves, Pompey had 100,000 slaves, mines bro, not body slaves, high end slaves, advisors to these guys, Greek tutors in, sexual escapades, they’re like family, free em in your will, hold up the values of the Roman republic, if you believe in it, the pontiffs are all politicians, pick a random roman general, age 9, Octavian was consul at age 19, they never said the Roman republic is over, is that corruption?, an informal thing, a mom and a dad, the dad goes away, maybe he’ll come back, there’s a lot of thoughtful things in this book, children outside of wedlock, scientist and his beautiful daughter, maybe she’s also kinda ugly, wrong centimeters, the E.F. Bleiler review, WWI, also lived in Canada, early science fiction, 1922, essentially a counterblast, the point of which Rousseau obviously missed, polemics, before Sarajevo, a Prussian pole, mandelian inheritance (genetics), suspending animation, rejects his suit, clamps the lid on, 100 years later, air patrol, taken to London, ruled by a diumvirate, twice in Roman history, Boss Lempkin, ward politician, New Republic, controls eugenics, blues and white, crank craniometric tests, phrenology, pinhead baby, having a brain in there, corruption, a better rating, work quota, Sanson, the secret of immortality, the abolition of family names, they’re illegal, in Korea, the wife doesn’t change her name, whichever family has the most prestigious name, Park and Kim, the list of last names, a sharp drop-off, Anna Park, a real thing, househunting, who is Michelle Park?, a white person last name, adopted, took the family name, older books can no longer be read, reading that into it, bootleg books, thought control, listening and broadcasting devices, overheard on a speaker, secreted books, powerful secret police, repress dissent, the utopia of H.G. Wells, venerated as a great prophet, the economy is socialized, “democracy”, mob rule, liberty, disintegrators, hovers beside the building, more of a helicopter, the human race has changed to, glow and mull, ultraviolet and infrared, to return to the story, grey robes, he’s a stranger, subversive religious underground, Christianity as the underground religion, a desperate struggle with the Russians, liberty loving Christians, accused of being a Spaniard, ambivalent status, a cult of the sleeper, destroy the new Republic, a strategic struggle, a civil war, planning an uprising, due to awaken at any moment, shock!, 35 years before the others, fairly similar to The Door Into Summer by Robert A. Heinlein, marriageable age, also a time machine, a much better novel, forceful and intelligent, the chaos of the 1980s, discovered the secret of immortality, the London mob, cries out for Christianity, a Russian airfleet appears, with Russian age, Robur The Conqueror, pulp adventure, omnipresent slogans, artificial language, thought control, Rousseau’s best work, The Eye of Balamok, Edgar Rice Burroughs, strength and self doubt and strength again, The Monster Men, south pacific island creations, not worthy of the girl, the daughter of the beautiful scientist, a real man, just had amnesia, more real ideas, this one is full of stuff, which is more dystopic?, both pretty dystopic, more likely to die violently, more likely to be a freak in the other one, freak is fine, butt’s to big, two heads, part of the telepathic battery, fake religion, making people out of you, priestly class is subverted, more vividly and much shorter, probably better written, both worth reading, pretty fuckin scary, very abstract and distracted, girl hunting, pining, 2nd Mars Barsoom book, getting to the girl, a good one, Terence or Mr. Pulpcovers, explained the Catholicism to us, high church?, T.S. Elliot, rejoining of the English church with the Russian church with the Vatican, Easter in the news and Gaza, the pope said, speech calling for a ceasefire, autopen for the 88 year old pope’s speeches written by chat gpt, archbishop reads, named after the hill, Romans are so interesting, institutions we would think of as corporations, collegia, local improvement, charitable things, an official thing, a lawyer for your college, like a guild, the thieves’ guild, levels of similarity that we have with them, the language, familarity and disfamiliarity, profs and a student body, self promotion, NGOs, so analoagous, people don’t really change, humans don’t really change, their brains work the same way, modes, not having the concept of evil, they do have the concept but don’t think about it the same way, Will doesn’t use “evil” very often if at all, keeping it in reserve, what Israel is doing to the people of Gaza, experienced personally, met evil people, very shocking, some people who don’t believe in it at all, cuts to the heart of things, just interests, the glee that people have in shooting babies, demonic, the program that runs in your head, ghosts, definitely a ghost, very much a ghost, getting drowsy, don’t do anything evil.
Posted by Jesse Willis