The SFFaudio Podcast #695 – The Doom That Came To Sarnath by H.P. Lovecraft – read by Mr Jim Moon. This is a complete and unabridged reading of story (25 minutes) followed by a discussion of it. Participants include Jesse, Evan Lampe, Trish E. Matson, Connor Kaye, and Alex.
Talked about on today’s show:
a magazine in Scotland, The Scot, 1920, issue 44, S.T. Joshi, Marvel Tales, Weird Tales, Jason Thompson’s adaptation, how many people have recorded this story, ISFDB, recent responses to this story, The Doom That Came To…, The Doom That Came To Gotham, Batman is intertwined with Lovecraft, The Colour Out Of Space, interpretation and guesswork, evocative, in dialogue with Lovecraft, the title, The Doom That Came To Ib, reading Lovecraft’s politics, is Ib a civilization, a prophecy, the runes of doom, horrible people decide to slaughter everyone, how awful and corrupt they are, jelly-like, massacre them all, Ibianians, they’re horrible dancers, deserving genocide for being bad dancers, outside force, decadence, is he going to go industrial?, a fully industrial or post-industrial, He, not just foreign hordes, established stabled civilizations, Robert E. Howard, materialism, Arnold J. Toynbee, karma, the laziness of the priests, worried, there might be an issue, poking the lizard demon, don’t other Bokrug, the salamander people, ugly beyond comprehension, bulging eyes and the greenish cast to the skin, adorable, little babies, almost none of the text is Jason’s own, see the lake, his relationship to nature, The Dunwich Horror, architecture, the laying out of the city, the beautiful rocks, The Moon Bog, lakes with secrets in them, the Moon, you do the wrong thing something bad will happen, the 1958 French , rumor rumor rumor all the rumor are true, vernacular knowledge, the wounds of the Moon, a bug explosion in the South Pacific, the bird is sitting on eggs, the swamp god, alligator, lily pad pac-men, babies in their baskets, Jason is so smart, round canoe, the moon is in the sky, a baby died, arrival celebration and death, coracle, a viking funeral, the arrival of man, just like killing the duck would be horrible, Connor: “I grew up on a farm, all I know are kangaroos,” the judgement is a leftover, they literally become that which they ate, only a line of text, these fish that you love to eat, a Thanksgiving story for Americans, parading around in their costumes, amateur journalism, all online at Mockman.com, gold rings, tearing a fish apart, we’re basically just a big tube, teeth on one end and a pooper on the other, cut to the party inside the mouth looking out, more bones, reeds, in the seed of those bones, the symbol that’s on Bokrug, Jason’s interpretation, a symbolic showing, the relationship with the Moon, what should they have done better, stop murdering all the people, 50 generations, Polaris, the answer is don’t sleep, don’t have so many parties, invest more heavily in your military, reparations, mocking, I never had a slave, Wilmington, North Carolina, 1898, a violent coup, people were hanged and driven into the marshes, the “black wall street”, eastern North Carolina, myth and just a story Lovecraft made up, parallels with real life, Mr Jim Moon’s show, Sarnath was a real place in India, another explanation, this is a true story, Kadatheron, the Moon might be real, opinions vary, nobody has an expectation that Sarnath was a real place, slightly relevant side-story, Adonis, the city is named Adonis, it sounded cool, Elantris, pre-squeecore, Eragon, a kid wrote it, that’s the idea, Lovecraft had read a lot of history, a very very Biblical story, set in the Dreamlands now we think, Cthulhu mythos story, looking them as individual pieces of art, the cubism or squeecore portion of his career, the serial of Re-Animator, what the story tells us it is, the stone cylinders of Kadatheron, the papyrus of Ilarnek, putting this tory together, how Sarnath came to be doomed, there are no characters in here, this period of time, these people did this, the history of the Jews, a story of that kind, what the bible is about, literally true, a myth cycle, make it manifest, why is this one less true, what is the truth that it is trying to tell us, turning them into the thing that they killed, a servant to a force, the other gods, eventually they get soft, a peacock for dinner, the cycle of civilizations, a coincidence, Batman lives in Gotham, this is ripped off from that, whther it is saying something true or not, “that’s Jordan Peterson of you Jesse”, Dagon, we know what it is saying, maybe he’s crazy, maybe he’s high on drugs, even with Polaris, based on a dream, based on a dream of a historical event, Old Testament, mixed with the Dreamlands style, Idle Days On The Yann by Lord Dunsany, after reading Dreamland, Polaris was written in 1918, this is my guy, Dunsany doesn’t have an axe to grind, vs. amusing, a nice comfy story trying to provoke a sense of wonder, Ex Oblivione, The White Ship, Book Of Wonder Stories, The Idler, Sidney Sime, The Second Book Of Wonder, we as humans mostly read our stories, others only watch their stories, before most people were literate, noticing the details of where the hand is, telling the story of the image, Puss In Boots, this cat teaches him how to do capitalism, why Jason is so extraordinary, this whole opening page, a way of pre-programming us for his own conclusion, brilliant, some place of love, he’s really grokked it somehow, his interpretation of the doom, waters retaking the city, reading that into other Lovecraft stuff, karma for a decadent civilization, Mnar, nothing left but the idol, an ecological thing, the British, the Romans were kinda like us, Washington, D.C., Greek and Roman architecture, what happened to those guys?, carrying on the Ibish culture, gothic cathedrals are Islamic in influence, did you know that alcohol is illegal in Saudi Arabia, transference, far enough away in time, we should be worried about this, drinking the same kool-aid, the priests joined in the orgies, it can include kissing, it’s a kissing story, too hard on the decadents, weird moralism, he’s worried about alcohol, fish, the sins of the fathers, “gee bible, that seems awfully harsh”, their families will suffer, murder celebration, the dog that shows up, slaughter scene, spearpoint, a big smile and a knife, Lovecraft doesn’t make it real, the splashing, shitting on them and peeing on them, smiling and laughing, warning!, the four fingered handprint, wholly undercooked, waxing mightily, at the feast, a goat’s head, the fish is the focus, the birds, Eric S. Rabkin, food in Science Fiction, The Food Of The Gods by H.G. Wells, biotech companies are doing this, everything bigger, selective breeding, the boy grows up to be big, the fish as the Jesus symbol, the absence of a Christian allegory, the wrath of god, we got a way out of this guys, we don’t have to be doomed, make a sacrifice of yourself, religion is important for people, the coelacanth and such, salamanders, reptiles, what you threw in that lake, an environmental story, you gotta listen to the rumors, its true in a certain way, talking with Christians, listening to the guy at the front, a consistent message, it provides great atmosphere, what is he trying to say?, why that thing is happening, anything presented to you is defaulted as true, the fake version of that, a lie presented as the truth, only humans have this problem, mimicry in nature, whether it is true or not if it helps you survive it gets incorporated, it looks really dangerous, whether a rumour is true or not it only has to be true some of the time to propagate, the meme idea, that’s appropriate, if I had a die, rumors are not random, dog psychology, fear presented as anger, frustration manifesting as anger, he’s touchy about that subject, don’t come near me, if Jason was here, a point of view from inside someone’s mouth, the thing being eaten, why so many intellectuals are vegetarian, we’re eating a thing that had feelings, how can a story that is so simple be so resonant, more resonant story than Dagon, a thing that happens throughout history, rabbit rumors, cow stampede, the boy cried wolf, he reaps what he sows, animals are communicating with each other, animals can be deceptive, a fake thump, false information, one function of rumors, I heard that guy’s a sexual predator, as long as you don’t get killed, the Russians are trying to interfere with our elections, busybody motives, be the center of attention, for their benefit, Chekhov’s brothers and sisters, they sorta gotta be, it would annoy people, there’s much more in the universe that we’re aware of, we’re on that island of ignorance, we have to suppress this knowledge, Einstein, this tendency to go around doing that, trying to understand reality, exploring an idea, don’t celebrate the colonial conquest, don’t steal Bokrugs, amazingly sympathetic to the frog people, unsympathetic to the humans, they grew up in a different casually dissolving pearls in wine, eating gold, this isn’t decadence is it?, this place sure is decadent, it doesn’t register as a thing, if there is a message, the higher sweep of history, caring about all the chalcedony, on a grid system, he’s doing SimCity, double lane highway, such decadence, the cubit high priests are literally high, reflecting on the moon and the stars and the planets, it’s very rich, we should burn this story, just read Scalzi, just read Matt Ruff, other better writers, an anti-colonization story, green mist off the lake, something coming down from the Moon, his idol goes missing, the prophecy of doom, animated itself, the frog people coming back, the people changing into, its hinted at, it’s only 12 or 15 minutes, the ghosts of the murder Ibians coming back, nothing lives at the lake, now they’re all woke, they hate themselves from what they’ve done, the ambiguity, upset, genocide scene, realizing the doom has come, partying on party beach, kids enjoying the beach, an Ibian cookie, pinatas, blow up baloons, an Ibian doll, x on its stomach where you’re supposed to stab, overinterpreting, they’re kids were really cute even though they danced horribly, you were too young last year, adults becoming like children, realization, get educated, 11 year olds will get the comic, why would anybody do that?, we have this ideology, they have stuff we want, they live near us and they’re ugly, all the foods that are describe, camel feet delicacies, it’s not cool Connor, don’t kill that chicken, two coffins full of chicken, no wonder the chicken is traumatized, we have to be reconciled, we want to extend it to the Ibians, receive all that praise, you’re correct I am the best, very relaxing, how it was intended to be, rich people’s entertainment, ascot is not this week, ads for airplanes and cars, expensive toys for rich people, not a common man’s magazine, we have their stories 100 years later, on that depressing note.
The SFFaudio Podcast #693 – Brother And Sister by Donald E. Westlake – read by Evan Lampe. This is a complete and unabridged reading of novel (3 hours 25 minutes) followed by a discussion of it. Participants include Jesse, Paul Weimer, Evan Lampe, and Trent Reynolds
Talked about on today’s show:
The Violent World Of Parker blog, Hard Case Crime, Call Me A Cab, a novella in Redbook, the RARA AVIS forums, Memory, many years later, when blogs died, Google murdered blogs, search blogs, authoritative sources, Redbook magazine, , a new coffee maker and Hard Case Crime, sitting around reading Donald E. Westlake, the low point of his writing career, how many characters, Paul, Angie, Bob, the uncle and the aunt, and the guy he decks, and the base commander, and a cop, and the neighbourwoman, Dancing Aztec has 50-60 characters, 3 and a half ours, there to fill a function, write me an incest book, he writes what he knows, baffled, Gorky Park by Martin Cruz Smith, funnier in concept than it is in execution, a cannibal book, hitting the checkpoints, the early lesbian and gay books, they have to kill themselves at the end, suicide murder, driven mad, smiling into the void, Lovecraftian, The Loved Dead by C.M. Eddy, a serial necophile, more bedmates, this has no laughs, an interesting artifact of the industry, Paul Westlake, did you name your son after this character?, 1961, was Westlake Catholic?, a popular choice for Catholics, Angela, the water in which they swim, the uncle was James, not a lot of creativity, Westlake’s official website, A tender compassionate novel of incestuous love, Edwin West, first publication anywhere, a handsome old man smokin a cigarette, you’re in the drug store getting your paperbacks and condoms, it all began innocently enough, the cruel unfeeling world, marriage to a prostitute, the artifact, did he marry an Austrian, Evan’s Austrian accent for Ingrid, innocent but exciting, like people possessed, the horrible guilt came later, Monarch Books, Inc., who is the audience for this book, a lot more people than are willing to admit, redtube and pornhub, step-family, a porno joke, i need to do some larping, a taboo that’s only in humans?, do dogs have taboos?, look at bonobos and chimpanzees, Incest Among The Apes by Paul Weimer, monogamy, polygenous, Paul’s research, recessive traits vs. mutations, hemophilia, sickle cell anemia, frisson, evolutionary and cultural history, broadening the incest taboo, Cleopatra’s family and the royal family of Hawaii, Chinese incest, tribute princesses, the Manchus, Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon (2000), “I’m pure blood”, of all the sleaze books, shoplifted quite a bit, checking on the listenership, he just has to do the job, some interesting things going on, it’s about the house, a property book, virginity issues, obsession with home ownership, an unlikeable character, physically abusive, a good depiction of his soul, a rebound relationship, feeling weird, over-reading, how boring her boyfriend Bob is, so boring, siblings are boring, leave the house and find some strange, find some nice Austrian lady, not very many positives, major life changes, the ring of the familiar, not a good edge, the emotional circumstances, a little too comfortable, how to construct a terrible book, the aunt who is comforting and the uncle is threatening, the funeral, isolated, tell Stella about my new boyfriend my brother, pick up sticks, Dain, three? sex scenes, we’re gonna be married soon, what makes a marriage formal, not consummated, doesn’t count, annulment, Maury Povich styles shows, Phil Donahue was classy, Morton Downey Junior, Jerry Springer, Povich is teaching, lesbian sex among co-eds in Greenwich Village by Dr. Lawrence Block, sandwiched, wife has sex with the family dog, Strange Tales From A Chinese Studio, Carnal Prayer Mat, as long as he ends up dead or ruined, don’t cheat on your loved ones, don’t pay a hooker with a personal cheque, our love cannot be denied!, a baby having two heads, two dudes who are gay for each other and they’re brothers, teratogenic incest baby, homosexual incest taboos, my husband is now my wife, why are the people doing this?, education + attention, this book exists, a market, the neighbours don’t know, The Lurking Fear by H.P. Lovecraft, The X-Files episode Home, the Peacock family, Weird Tales exoticism, peacock kings, real estate porn, your side plot is arguing over a deed, Western, lets talk to a lawyer, Westlake is really into insurance, The Risk Profession, a science fiction story about insurance, Somebody Owes Me Money, such a good book, murder mystery, the dad in that book, comparing different insurance plans, based on Westlake’s own life, The Green Eagle Score, To Catch A Thief (1955), insurance is the opposite of gambling, related to gambling, if you’re living in the states right now, Westlake’s upbringing, sitting around thinking about what things are like, the Red Cross stuff, a non-incest sex scene, easy ladies, engaging with the Red Cross, why is there this fight over the deed?, debts extinguishing with the death of the father, there’s no talk about a will, the office and lawyer stuff, an episode of The Saint written by Terry Nation, an allegory for Vietnam, the opposite of an allegory (a formula), returning the drugstore with a used incest book, he did a professional job, self-publishing on Amazon, the pornhub thing, the incest stepsister fantasy, available for anonymous download, Westlake is the sale, nobody at the time knew, technically crimes, incest and deed fraud, Subterranean Press, Honey Girls, Sin Hellcat by Donald E. Westlake and Lawrence Block, Folio Society, heresy, drink your champagne, lovingly see the typeface, you’re in the drugstore, you’ve got your sister at home, French ticklers, French packets [letters], WHAT MANNER OF LOVE?, “we could go away to some other city, Paul”, ravaged, empty terror, playing bit-parts in Summerstock, Campus Doll, Young And Innocent, the Grofield books, a half-handful of stories actually about insurance, the entire American welfare state is employer paid insurance schemes, writing at the peak of the welfare state, the insurance companies are a scam now, where Jesse lives, auto-insurance, the “socialist” government, less fighting in courts, mandatory insurance for drivers, nofault insurance, there’s no competition, the shitty health care we have (in British Columbia), everybody gets the same health insurance, when you’re pooling like that, getting your vaccine, “safe and effective”, there are effects, mnra vaccines, the hospital didn’t bankrupt Jesse, scam insurance, Westlake is thinking deeply (kind of his job), don’t sleep with your sister, we need an asshole character, pretty good book for a terrible book, the premise is what sells it, genres or tropes?, Angie doesn’t worried about getting pregnant very much, birth control is not mentioned, Paul opened the drawer of the nightstand and opened a Trojan, a weird reading experience, what a twit you are, other methods, there’s no vagina even mentioned, very tame, we’re never going to get as explicit as “she put in her diaphragm”, hang on bro, spermicidal jelly, The Naked Director, accidentally invents the facial, technically a birth control measure, boobs and nipples and curves, very tame, pornography inflation, women at the used bookstore with 30 romance novels, what is the appeal of these things, romance brain is super strong, Harlequin Romances, trying to sell romance novels, characters have sex but mostly incidents leading up to it, immature, exhausted what little there was, Evan’s narration, the cops were coming all the time, the garbage trucks came to get this book, process, Prince Snake Lady, Mr. Adam by Pat Frank, three chapters a day for a week, more of the German girlfriend, a much better book: if she had showed up again…, Angie has nothing, Bob is the best character, waste a bullet, make it a Lovecraftian story, just add a little mindswap, The Thing On The Doorstep by H.P. Lovecraft, confluence of the ley lines, horror, The Green Eagle Score by Richard Stark, military policeman, Dortmunder beer, he’s not a dumb guy, this guy is thinking about things, drafted into the army, being in a socialist system (the army and the airforce), the universal army, Fredric Jameson, bureaucratization of problems, Tucker Coe, Samuel Holt, 105 absolutely known, smut books, short stories, Mitch Tobin, I Know A Trick Or Two, the worst book, protecting ourselves from the accusations of liking , no heavy petting no penetration, a kissing book, Make Out Point, early Stephen King, Carrie, paradise by the dashboard lights, car culture, Italy, Taiwan, hourly rate hotels, a nap, you live with your parents even if you’re married, marginal phenomena, always step, the Japanese pron is straight sister stuff, the taboo is stronger in Japan, lesbian books, why you have hotel rates, your sister’s in the next room, a flourishing ebook market on Amazon for brother sister books, reading audiobook erotica, what people do for money, we don’t live in a communal society, the commercial aspect, the erotica business, drawing the line at incest, next week its cannibalism, other taboos, necrophilia, Pity Me! by Bertha Russell (age 15), The Loved Dead by C.M. Eddy, antagonist vs. loving, Julia Morgan (Morgan Scorpion), is it Evan with his smoking is it Paul with his guilt, Paul Bishop, somewhere in San Fransisco…, Take The Money & Run, westerns, mysteries, Jack London seems to have invented frontier fiction, see life in the raw, claim jumping, western adjacent, Les Savage, Max Brand, Zane Grey, Louis L’Amour, A Princess Of Mars by Edgar Rice Burroughs, Outland (1981) is High Noon (1952) in space, Moon Zero Two (1969), hard SF, a spectacular failure, acoustic panels.