Jesse, Scott Danielson, and Cora Buhlert talk about Cemetery World by Clifford D. Simak
Talked about on today’s show:
serialized November 1972 – January 1973, over three issues, almost everything by him, a Simak kick, Shaun Standfast has been ill, six months on pause, meet him in the cemetery and talk to him about it from above his grave, books in tweets, a disappointment, we didn’t read the same book, 22, old people books, Way Station, there’s no conflict in here, very brief, to spite Jesse’s theory, mad at the captain, annoyed, visit the boss who runs Earth, they don’t really do anything about it, wolves, two giant tanks, a bomb thrown, I’m mad at these ghosts, one of his road trip books, A Choice Of Gods, Goblin Reservation, shouted out in this book, End Of Nothing, Project Pope, he had that in mind, set in the same universe, a planet called Prairie, every book is the same: Wizard Of Oz, also in Astounding, Fishhook was the big bad organization, The Fisherman, Time Is The Simplest Thing, all of these are science fiction, random time travel by ghost, robot wolves, other things, witches flying on brooms, doing massive hard SF explanations, yet it contains a lot, telepathy, the whole idea that earth is turned into a cemetery, return to earth to be buried, not that far fetched, immigrants, Turkish passport to be buried in Turkey, return to the Earth, Germany used to be a lot bigger, conscious memories, trade in homeland soil, Transylvania, how the ghosts work, who is the census-taker, what is the census-taker?, a lurker, a hider, a scurrier, collecting things, anachronic, Marvel’s Watcher, an alien, the reader in Marvel comics, looking at the comics, a famous potter, a masterpiece, made for some great man of the time, perhaps for the census taker, 1963, predates, offer a thesis, City, Census, meditates on it, a thinker, very thoughtful, not fully cooked, he’s an immortal, a time traveler, he wouldn’t know us yet, the method of time travel, ghosts can do it, until a technology is invented, it always existed, why that would annoy somebody, you have to have come to this place now, what the future is like, unsatisfying also completely satisfying, what happens in the book is random walk, when he started this book, just fine as usual, is this guy Lazarus?, his feet are floating, he doesn’t eat very much or very often, if he is a biblical character, a hidden Christianity inside this book, never overt, Simak exploration, a list of Catholic authors, not a practicing Christian, thinking about it, a projection, shades, giant temple museum, the vase they found in the house earlier, the guy behind the desk is a ghost, a ghost into a body of a robot through technology, very Simak, uninterested in anything except the journey, travel to another planet, unicorns are real, just to have those experiences, three wolves, robot hero, Elmer, after a certain point, great robots, lawnmower robot named Clifford, of all the many 1930s stories, a lawmowerbot, annoys the protagonist, 1944, unable to predict the outcome of WWII, in hibernation, a little bit of this in it, Over The River And Through The Woods, a great short story writers, fix-up, a journey across country, a magical portal, so many good ones, parents find out a nuclear war is coming, the missiles are on their way, grandma and grandpa, time travel to the past, its got that pastoral loveliness, the conflict while present theoretically, The Black Hound Of Death and an H.G. Wells story, breaking bone, blood and gore, horrible and awesome, if Simak did that story, I’m not the worst guy, throw a bomb later, a really friendly dog, Robert E. Howard lied dogs, he liked them to be fierce, Simak’s ideal dog, a golden retriever, about the same age, what would happen, mostly westerns, the Sword and Sorcery revival, still be publishing, a writing machine, the gentle pastoral community, what is this book?, qualities you love, a marker of him, doing science fiction but not leaving behind the fantastical, stranger things in heaven and earth, quoting Shakespeare, Shakespeare’s Planet, a kindness that permeates, Bradbury loves the small town, walking overland, going down to the river, the other monster that’s in here, the ghouls, dig up graves, to get the metal, treasure boxes, not Lovecraftian ghouls, the corruption that is in the corporation, the corruption in the graveyard, the earth is a giant cemetery, a particular direction, Dune, desert planet, mostly just Arrakis, Tattooine, Hoth, jungle planet, Endor, Naboo, redwoodplanet, Philip Jose Farmer book, grass planet, Trantor, a cemetery world, a necropolis, rows and monuments but no occupants, I like alliteration, evocative stuff just within it, what people were like, girls and boys on dates would go for walks in the cemetery, the girl needs to snuggle up close, let’s think about death, I’d like to spend some time with you before we die, meet cute, an artist?, ai art, how prescient, ai assistant, a composition, the human needs to be part of it, people who are dismissive of ai art as slop, talking with Eric S. Rabkin, a little bit coughy, you passed the test, it was ai, fuck off, don’t send me your robot poetry, no soul there, youtube channels, human beings who really like Star Trek, make little skits with those actors with those voice, a little back and forth and around, the writing is not written by ai, the compositor, face swap, do impersonations better, wild crazy things, immediately infuriated, obvious to anybody, one of the themes in this book, given enough time robots are more human than human, care about art, I was born on earth, put together on earth, new Frankenstein (2025) movie, why did he make these changes, at the bed, we’re not supposed to like our Frankenstein creator character, that idea of a created thing creating new things, he was the guy who build one of the tanks, Joe and Ivan, waiting for Ivan to show up, Russia, peace prize to NATO, he’s doing great work in this book, in the right mode, very meditative, everything will be humane, the two headed corpse, a little horror show, travelling across a planet, some place, the girl starts turning into a mummy, in the basement there’s a fishtank viewer sort of thing, a general, a robot, a hero guy, and a girl, go through a portal and all of these things happen, the ai essay writer, A Choice Of Gods, same year, 1972, that could be any book, Special Deliverance, 1982, The Visitors, the same thing every time, a college professor, a giant blue cube, a role playing game scenario, a tavern, where are we, let’s go for a walk, something in the woods, everything that happens doesn’t happen with an overarching plot in mind written by the author, writing by the seat of your pants, humanness, coziness, a spritely love of life and existence, the first issue of Analog, the scene with the two tanks facing each other, two war machines, it’s symbolic, so powerful, two tiny little humans, a male and a female, don’t run away, you tell it much better than I, keep going, we can help you, the first human that’s ever listened to them, the people who live on earth today, 10,000 years after WWIII, very very American view of immigration, destroyed and irradiated earth, the adventurous ones, the younger sons, they already got theirs jack, women looking for husbands, the bars at the harbour, hung out with the sailors, had to go to the USA, hop a ship to go to America, undercut in the book, his visit with the drinking, the guys who run the squaredance, not much mutated, homey old fashioned moonshine, who wants to dwell on that, corruption throughout these organizations, a theme, teleprojection, astral projection machines, using that technology in a corrupt way, coherently plotted, in terms of structure, godly related, Christianly related, a mess, superstition coming back, the evil corporation, the nasty behind all the events that happen, rightly skeptical, dancin and sharin alcohol, we’re nice people, a bomb-throwing, this other corrupting thing making us do this, reading Simak over time, all the reasons for being cynical but chooses not to go that direction, city government in the first City story, see it more and more, over and over, corrupt organizations, prevailing against, Simak isn’t cynical, he was a newspaperman, this makes you cynical, engaged with what’s going on everyday, talk to the cop, the real dope, you can’t write that, you know what’s going on, get cynical real fast, drinking, not my problem, cashing my paycheck, a method somehow to exist and not lose hope, I go for a walk with my girl and my dog, enjoy the seasons, enjoy the river, the Ohio River, rivers are important, still there and still flowing, a symbol for time, and eternity, recurring themes, war, nuclear bombs became obsolete, no center to hit, survived, these war machines arriving at the scene and not having anything to do because it was over, meeting each other and becoming friends, being standoffish, fascinating, the same message, thoughtful consideration, black stones come down and eat trees, thoughtfulness, Cynthia, our girl, Fletcher, somebody put up a youtube video of Chapter 18 of this book, an interesting scene, flashforward into the past, the house, the pots and pans, vomits, a love story, facing death and horror, what will happen?, will you love me?, the build up for the whole book, he wants to dance with her, she looks pretty, of course I’ll love you, the only female character in the book, the same everytime, in Shakespeare’s Planet, a tattoo on her breast, sometimes women have tattoos and they need love too, what a guy this Simak guy, dead since the late 80s, a guy is still alive, witnessing his thought, what kinda artist is this Fletcher, his compositor is a typewriter, a mobile typewriter with six legs named Bronco, back in time to Alden, both from Alden, not an Iain M. Banks style galaxy, laze about, swapping genders, commerce going on, being skinned, another Simak book hidden within this book, exploiting people for money, gets a tip about a funeral home, you need that really expensive coffin, you could become cynical because there’s profit to be made, deaths cost went up significantly, buy up the grave again, 3000 euros, extorting you, trash the grave, grandma and grandpa’s bones on the trash, scatter ashes, violates the dignity, special rules for the corporations, mandatory like death, the background for Cemetery, the cemetery is full of corruption, get it, a robot clipping lawns beside a headstone, the image from the captain, unload, unloading coffins, build the coffins on other planets, a wooden coffin, bursts out Elmer, doing the Frankenstein thing, stronger than a man, bigger than a man, you’re going to ride me, the most accurate cover, the original serialized Analog cover, the tank in the background, the moon telling us where we are, walking with Edgar Allan Poe through the graveyard, the beauty that is lost, a great book, in the experience, a great walk in the autumn, loves retriveing sticks, you’re not allowed to drink it, a perfect book for this time of year, the prefect November book, A Night In The Lonesome October by Roger Zelazny, there’s nothing forced, ghosts are in graveyards, he’s not doing an homage, journey through the woods, to these great living monuments of death, a german edition, loved cemeteries, stroller through the cemetery, and churches, old graveyard, headstones, nice old cemetery, immigrants, former Yugoslavia, a liberal cemetery, bury me in a traditional conservative cemetery, disco lights, only grey headstones, only red granite, biological grandmother, step-grandmother, super regimented cemetery, praying hands by Albrecht Durer, bathroom wall, violated some kind of cemetery rule, Cora wanted to be buried at sea, interesting graves, poetry of the dead people engraved in the stone, a cargo ship engraved, a captain, graves with chinese letters, old ones, big tombs, locally famous people, in the graveyard, what percentage of these Simak novels have you read?, plenty, 27 novels, Comsimc Engineers, Empire, Ring Around The Sun, Time Is The Simplest Thing, They Walked Like Men, All Flesh Is Grass, Why Call Them Back From Heaven, The Werewolf Reservation, Out Of Their Minds, Destiny Doll, A Choice Of Gods, Our Children’s Children, Enchanted Pilgrimage, Shakespeare’s Planet, weird introduction to science fiction, A Heritage Of Stars, Mastadonia, The Fellowship Of The Talisman, The Visitors, Project Pope, Where Evil Dwells, Highway Of Eternity, read 11, newspaperman, heroic newspaperman, smoking is pipe and smiling, the covers are getting shittier and shittier, new ebook editions, 7 volumes of short stories, to read things back to back, the highlights, what makes them big?, recurring themes, one a month, as you see him develop, some authors shy away from doing that, Stephen King, you can’t help it, any good story is really about the author’s experience, stories set in ancient greece, ancient middle east, they read 1,001 Nights, in those experience they got a reverence for this, Clarke Ashton Smith story, wrote that story twice, never been out of California, east asia, jungly, desserty, elephants are awesome, abused circus elephants, Coney Island, tried to hang an elephant, big media stories, a circus that came to town, blown away by the size and the grace and the weirdness of that thing, The Tower Of The Elphant, what do these three guys have in common, sword and sorcery inventor, all about necromancers, that was their fantasy, they are writing in a tradition, the Thief Of Baghdad, Ali Baba, it allows you to create your own, the decline in Arabian fantasies, you really have read good stuff, fell out of fashion, they’ll tell you it’s racist, sexist, read the old good stuff, a book from 2008, terrible old books, 1968, they usually weren’t good books, teaching children Goethe, german rapper, Shakespeare, figuring out what that is, everything old is bad, everything new is good, colonialist, middle eastern set stories, H. Rider Haggard, stories about the crusades, the little triggers, take that little piece out, all those smoothing stones, the episode of Star Trek called The Apple, snake temple, another hippie in space, zap the temple with the phasers to kill the snake, these people are stuck, not be guided by the snake, it couldn’t be made today, too simple and good, let’s have a heist, fuck off I don’t want to see your heist, the last heist you needed to ever watch was Ronin (1998), for the fun chase, what’s in the box, we need never have a heist ever again, wait 1000 years, a gang of criminals have stolen a priceless artifact, stole a crown or something, plaguing Berlin, there’s no George Clooney here, any great art should be replicable, here’s a movie for Scott and Julie with no singing and dancing, Kill (2023), commuter on there, thugee style criminals, conflict between two families, clubs and knives, thieves, at the 40 minute mark, a blood splash, commandos from the Indian Army, the ice train movie, Snowpiercer (2013), a linear journey, Steven Seagal, Under Siege 2 (1995), every Marvel movie ends in a train fight, when is this singing and dancing going to end, some crown in the Louvre, melt down that crown, ketchup or mustard, air cover, the words themselves, the text within, font size, the kind of font it is, Simak lives in this book, he’s still alive, giving life to his ghosts, this is great art, barely doing what it says on the tin, mature works from a thoughtful guy, four days of prep time for Christmas eve, a Saturday, a liberal Christmas market, the costs were too high, 2026 is coming, month away, when did that happen?, time is the simplest quick thing, shopping in December, getting into Bremen, days to look forward to, ruminate on short stories, church stuff on Mondays, read it with your bare hands, illustrations, George MacDonald omnibus, 1858, Lilith, super-sick on that one, novella length, grokipedia, a rival for wikipedia, a bias towards evil, look at a president, CIA guys are allowed to make edits, the Phantastes entry, quotes Cora Buhlert, hoovers up everything, what all the scrapers do, weird contradictions, they all do this, the Clifford Simak one, Wisconsin, a slightly more controversial figure, war in Ukraine, gatekeepers, no person involved, banned sources, approved sources, consistently wrong, Armenia, Azerbaijan, fairly useful, consult grok, as good and all the features, asking specific questions, are there any repair places nearby, a search engines, ai art sucks, ai music that’s incredible, take 50 cents song in a soulful 1960s style, just changing font, I like Garamond, you like Arial, that’s not art, harder than transferring font, in the next five years, a household telepresence robot, stocking shelves in stores with telepresence robots, this ai art thing is mostly garbage at this point, that’s normal, losing jobs, the sabot, buggy whip manufacturers, do you really want to say you can’t replace human jobs with robot jobs, why these jobs?, translators cost money, a selfish argument, a selfless argument, birth certificate translation, people with use chat gpt in their job, sexually harasser, automated car tower stuff, Florida California, both have Disneys, putting valets out of work, a word for a job that doesn’t exist, an assistant, whenever the parking is inconvenient, weird service jobs, bag boy, a grocery packing robot, confronted with technology, it has to be bigger, everything’s about me all the time, nice gas station attendant, artist is a great job, ususally it is some scam, Guillermo Del Toro, the terrible book covers, painted covers, vaguely photoshop, a trend that goes way before the ai, a decision by individuals, I’m in this for money, a guy who makes boutique cars, I love cars, he’s gonna sell it or the country crashes, there were editors who used to love science fiction, I’m not gonna read ai books, the spelling or the font, Booker and Pulitzer prizes, what the grokepedia and the wikipedia matters, does the Hugo make it better, he had 17 hairs on his chin, the human will triumph over the automated system, The Gods Themselves by Isaac Asimov, we like him giving a toast, David Gerrold, Poul Anderson, The Book Of Skulls, Dying Inside, Robert Silverberg, The Dispossessed, gentle and loving vs. rough, Vietnam, Pacific Northwest, Avatar (2009), anarchist communist moon to capitalist planet, The Left Hand Of Darkness, The Lathe Of Heaven, the saint of science fiction, Margaret Atwood also a saint (but not of science fiction), Octavia Butler, someone’s entrance into science fiction, bloody Star Wars (1977), against opposition, one of many, weird saint floating above it all, just annoying, Bloodchild, fandom, focused on the wrong things, Francis Stevens is great writer, Simak is a white man?, American?, I hate those!, Clarke will last a little longer, the sad truth is all media, stop focusing on the book, trick the book publishers into trying to sell some books, conglomerates, vertical integration, they’re the gutter, they don’t even make novelizations anymore, desperate writers, Alan Dean Foster, Kevin J. Anderson, Predator (1987), too young, login to Disney plus, Piers Anthony, novelization of Star Trek: Next Generation tv series, Encounter At Farpoint, Doctor Who novelizations, people running things are incredibly stupid, tie-in-novels for Murder, She Wrote, Star Trek Animated Series re-imagined, kinda Star Trek, almost looks right, unsettling, Data and Picard and Worf, casual friday, uses the actor’s voice, fairly there, far in the future, technically possible, new episode of actual Star Trek, Deanna Troi having a conversation with Barkley she never had, under the radar at the moment, new seasons of Star Trek, they don’t want the competition, the real problem, we have more clamping than freedom, all the Gaza holocaust videos were deleted, everything gets clamped down, old money extracting and extracting, preventing magazine shops from opening up, can’t afford to live, can’t afford to rent shops, business ideas, nail studios, donair shops, barber shops, exploit their family to work for cheap or free, immigrant businesses, ruining our city centers, the high rents are ruining our city centers, everybody needs to eat on occasion, very difficult to get lunch anywhere, lots of restaurants no longer open for lunch, donair over McDonalds, food made by humans not by robots, tourist trap restaurant, automatic kitchen, robot movies, robots in movies, I Am Mother (2019), the five kinds of sandwiches, doesn’t care about you as much as your mom does, you eat the sandwich, hopefully it was made with love, no flies fell in it, no staples got in your tuna sandwich, is that love?, no, hire someone, make you sandwiches, none of those are love, all the rest is various degrees of commercialism, he’s writing for himself, we can trust him, no problems selling his work in his late period, he’s very very good, it’s full of love, no ai filler, he has to put the girl on the table naked because he’s trying to get the cover, what this book is about, except for the german one, the first issue of Analog, what grok knows, Frank Frazetta, just give me the gist, runs off and draws himself and his wife and giant snake, more passion than love, still a kind of love, wowing, new full cast Harry Potter, Stephen Fry and Jim Dale, a tv series, would have loved it at 10 or 12, a nerdy shop, half the stuff is Harry Potter, sweepstakes, put a yoda on it, Too Much by Donald E. Westlake, a Tamil version, The Twin (1984), the American one from 1995, doesn’t have twins, this book is so fuckin awesome, light comedy, a bit of an asshole but you love him, jaw dropped to the floor, Westlake’s so good at it, that little hidden hobby horse, insurance, it bothers him, funny little guy, lovely talking to you.
Posted by Jesse Willis
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