The SFFaudio Podcast #805 – Lucian’s True History by Lucian of Samosata, read by Terry Kroenung, translated by Francis Hicks. This is a complete and unabridged reading of the story (1 hour 22 minutes) followed by a discussion of it. Participants in the discussion include Jesse, Evan Lampe, Will Emmons, and Jonathan Weichsel.
Talked about on today’s show:
True History, A True History by a long dead guy, this is science fiction, not very effectively, “the first known text that could be called science fiction”, histories of science fiction, deep roots, little conversation, Frederik Pohl book, niche interest, mainstream?, a lot more like Star Wars than Star Trek, a social science fiction, it’s something, modern readers from the 1600s on consider him an atheist, monotheistic religions at all, he believed in truth and common sense, the molecular theory of matter is hilarious (but also possibly true), making fun of all those people, his mode was irony, dripping with it, planets and stars, wouldn’t it be funny, could this fit into Planet Stories (no), no Mars, we go to Venus, we go to the Sun, the Moon, the translation is wrong, Lucifer, the light bringer, we went to the morning star, that’s Venus, thinking they’re two separate stars, a journey through the solar system, inside a whale, the land of dreams, the afterlife, a journey into other places (besides space), where do we get the title from, A True Story, it should have true in it, it’s all lies, it’s about truth, this place like Hell, Odysseus goes to Hell too, Hades, the plot is a greatest hits of silly ideas, Gulliver’s Travels is more science fiction than this, philosophers rather than scientists, Jonathan’s point, Philosophers going cheap, ironically poor manner, the punchline for each one, to perform manual labour, you can clean my floors, mythology too, a poor view of mythology, people who believed it were just idiots, Xenophones, reviving the pagan tradition, the 2nd century, 3rd century Platonism, critical of this, a lot of Christians don’t think about the story because they didn’t read the book, a reference to Genesis, all new to them, a participant in a religion with no one fixed text, this is not a straight up history, this is a parable (as mentioned in the actual story), the more you drill down into it, they weren’t there, I heard this from a dude, this is hilarious, one of the most popular writers of his time, survived all of the fires, made by hand, what’s the technology of reading, [Writing on the Wall: Social Media – The First 2,000 Years by Tom Standage], a scene in I, Claudius, manuscripts copied, they all want it and we can sell it, a roomful of copyists, The Aeneid, state sponsored, collectors, the ancient world, books we know exist, excerpts, a checklist, ancient Greek/Roman culture, lost to us, this is how we know about them, the amount of material lost, Menopus, jokes then reconstructed, people who were dead showed up, get this joke out, are you sure you wrote that joke?, A Connecticut Yankee In King Arthur’s Court, new at the time, every joke is a joke from the stone age, the same body parts [until the early 21s century], boobs, screwing, special stuff, trying to keep track of how many men he started off with and how many came back with, lose two guys to vine ladies, vaguely paid attention, start subtracting after a certain point, straight narrative, on his way home, jump back in time, by the time he gets home at the end of the chronological narrative, mostly they’re dead, for the messaging if there is any, trynna be pretty funny, houseguests: how to be one, how to not end up as one, the Calypso letter, about lies, why you gotta avoid lying, the opening introduction material, The Pathological Liar [Lover Of Lies], the sick friend, Disney’s Sorcerer’s Apprentice, symposium, weaving those stories in, but the first of more adventures like this, find my woke hat, doesn’t fit me well, very fashionable hat, a lot of genocide in here (amongst other things), let’s kill them all, ah whatever, very casual, go to the island of these women, jobs as hostesses, what you got under that kilt, right out of The Odyssey, there’s nothing there but water, this island isn’t as good as we though it was, satire, 1640 something, the Paul Turner translation, a much bigger emphasis on the genocide and making it funny, in the whale, casual and breezy, they live alone and they’re unarmed, the most logical thing to do is to kill them all, have it be a lot funnier, the 1958 translation, a thousand at the very least, unless you count fishbones, all the latest equipment, everyone agreed to this proposal, more blunt, funnier, digging out the nuggets of goodness, what the narrative is actually saying, they buried their dead inside the whale, what does that consist of exactly, doesn’t even feel that he’s on fire yet, making it really explicit, seems more literal translation, more relatable style, a nice short book, modern translation, took things literally at that time, writing it literally, a translation as you would for a menu, jokes in menus, all the illustrations, ladies and men various places, all the men, the king says, I’m gonna give you guys all spouses, but you only have men here, a subset of men who reproduce differently, riffing on pederasty, what if there was a planet where all there was, shownotes, wonderful illustrations that very much enhance the story, there is gold in this book, when they made peace in outerspace, much funnier than the way it is put, at the first meeting, rejecting them out of hand, in the following document, the Sun people and their allies, the Moon people, the Vanquished, not to make war in future, pay the Victors annually 10,000 bottles of dew, not so different from us, when you read these really really old books, on and on, didn’t have the colour blue, the wine dark sea, that’s not what it means, strange beings that are not like us, cultural circumstances and particular languages, sex parts described in more detail, weird birthing, Malo, think about this a little bit, Hippomyrmices, Phaetons, great gnats, turnips, anoint their bullets with the poison of mallows, weapons made of vegetables, privy members, rods made of mallows, plucked a root of mallows, make my prayers to that, lupins, nor to come near a boy past 18 years of age, come to the island again, the final instance of mallows, only by women, yay!, attired like wantons, long mantles down to the foot, Cabbalusa, Hydramardia, my heart misgave me, the bones of many men, any stir, taking the mallow into my hands, present perils, a scene from Circe’s island, stabs the water, marshmallow, that’s where they grow, the flavour of marshmallow, a reed, is this a symbol for something, root beer, a botanical significance, this might be a traditional penis enhardener, a lot of this stuff is like this, a repeated theme, we don’t understand what this is, a lot of classic works, directly parodying, reading travelogues, going to India, maybe he read a book where a guy went to the Moon, the opening, just beyond the Western Ocean, Hercules and Bacchus, carving their own record, a structure here that works, missing way too much, The Iliad, it’s really tricky, lots of boats here, the movie, it was actually good, The Aeneid is the same way, in reverse order, 50,000 heroes vs. 1 hero, a lot easier to understand, the way you would tell this story, some rich guy’s house, you sing for your supper, focus on that particular Ajax, a handy index, in order to focus on the local hero, grokking a good chunk of this book, half-ignorant, not fully able to appreciate, the context of Lucian, this Hellenistic world, lingua franca, Hellenistic schools, travel and people moving around, drawn from life, the diversity of the region, a society that was falling apart, Hellenized, Syrian, living in Rome, a greatest hits of silly ideas, Dialogues Of The Dead, feasted with them, went to Homer, a pillar of berylstone, the safe harbour, Lucian did once attain to see all this, a Lucian was here, Kilroy was here, carves it on a monument, making fun, what travellers do, a high mountain caves, Jonathan loves Samanthan, used condoms, old beer cans, that Penelope might not see him, Calypso, if it were our fortune, bent upon other employments, might be easier to make a list of places he doesn’t go, the whale scene, into depths inside the whale, pretty much incredible, the size of everything, wringing every bit of satire, the main character is the author, good days weather, with the frame, what are we supposed to make of this?, ethically against lying, definitely entertaining, passed around to their friends, advocate for entertainment, for entertainment purposes, great literature, things can be true on more than one level, former clients, as a story, true within a story, how to construct stories, set something up and didn’t pay it off, why is this story powerful?, truth within that structure, to the nth degree, more exaggerated than everything in Gulliver’s Travels, going to Japan, increasingly ridiculous, sets it up in such a way, Sir John Mandeville’s travels aka Mandeville’s Travels, ignorant or familiar, thinking of Christ as Batman, materials, Zorro, the Black Bat, in the hero pulp, a sidekick girl, Robin Hood’s cap, a ripoff of a particular Shadow story, beat for beat, this is the true facts about Batman, works great for Superman and Spider-Man, what would Spider-Man do in this situation, with great power comes great responsibility, I believe in Spider-Man, my brother in Christ, a mantle you put on, get closer to God, is bizarre, utterly bizarre, a philosophically funny work, three cards, a book, a bird, and a boy, three b words, 6 lines in 7 minutes, on a branch above the tree, this can’t be a true story, it starts with once upon a time, the boy the bird and the book disappeared, the end, nothing about it is possibly true and yet we continue to read it, everything that happens is 100% true, our default mode as humans, take in sense data and say this is true, further experimentation and mentation, forces itself upon you, not a mental rape exactly, it doesn’t stop it, focus our attention on, fairly copiable, from The Pathological Liar, elucidate some of this Philoclese, prefer lies to truth, mentally deficient, Herodotus, Homer, not content with deceiving their contemporaries, the most beautiful poetry, the castration of Uranus, birds and bears, chimera, very fascinating to children, alright in poetry, the Cretans point out the grave of Zeus, grew out of the soil like vegetables, plant men who germinated from the teeth of snakes, any sane person, drove threw the air, carried off by the North Wind, a blasphemous idiot, how powerful lies can be, national myths, patriotic motives, all the official guides would starve to death, merely absurd, a manifesto, that translation seems very modern, a little annoying here, not earnest in his reporting, to call him a liar, picks on Plato, is Plato not earnest?, is Plato a liar?, the Myth of a Cave, bootstrap us into a particular position, The Matrix (1999), this looks cool, the idea, it’s a fiction that gets at a truth, how do you know what truth is?, engaging, the [Christopher] Steele Dossier, the Hillary Clinton campaign paid a former M16 agent to dig up dirt, they didn’t want him to find nothing, pee tape, largely lies, demonstrably, there’s no basis for this, tautological, when you pay Stephen King, opposition research, it’s weird to believe it, Domino Theory, Paul went to Vietnam, don’t think it’s weird, State of the Union, back Ukraine, domino the rest of Europe, some thinktank came up with in the 1950s, demonstrable evidence that it’s bullshit, it needs to be true to get the result that they want, from a particular worldview, just asking for rumours, same thing for Herodotus, a collection, collecting stories, father of history, collected all the histories, and rumors, the true history of the United States and the mythological histories of the United States, the Blue Bull, Johnny Appleseed, our current standards of methodology, rather than Evan Lampe, the Dunning School historians, demented by their racism, mad dog, biting other people various phobias, sick of psychic phenomena, antidote truth and common sense, take it with a grain of salt, a very important message, we have the internet, everybody and their spies, broadbased lies and mistruths in the past, read the newspaper for an hour, pay to get lied to, more people actively at work than ever before, so many people actively working to lie to us, and getting paid to lie to us, not their job titles, actively editing, according to the lies Jesse believes, drill down into any Wikipedia entry that is locked, you’ll find active participants employed or paraemployed by governments and thinktanks, very true, not some YouTube video, this one on peanut butter not locked, not the way corporations get upset, candidate being damaged possibly, an orator, reading their writing out loud to large groups, an attorney before he was a satirist, The Life Of Brian (1979), like Facebook or Twitter or YouTube, the people shouting probably had slaves, what class of people were the philosophers drawn from, your latest book of lies, become a houseguest, a new workout, a party guest thing, ancient vs. roman, Epictetus was a slave, of this period, a cult, a leader, following the leader, go stand on the street corner and speak my philosophy, the cynics, the skeptics, the stoics, the Christians, a big soup, a blanket condemnation, hate the internet, nothing but liars, sociological people, pathological people, sociopaths, gather flocks of followers around themselves, just a bunch of liars, atomic theory of matter is hilarious, so stupid, even when Lucian is wrong, when the liars are right, all over the place, fall into a rabbit hole, get stuck there, do away with the whole thing, genocide thing, the whole nonsense, common sense makes me reach for my phaser, vow of silence, very hard to make lies without words, the sky is purple tonight, not true when you’re young, get old, get dumb again, get tricked later in life, the concept of senility to a sociological level, outsourcing your knowledge, we’ve had this talk before, impossible not to do this, the rabbit whole we’re in here, doomer edgelord, get tricked again, if Jesse slacks he’ll get tricked again, keep up with studies, listening to lies on YouTube is your study, every history book ever listed, Liminal Spaces on YouTube, this is a story I read, getting facts wrong, this is what it meant to me, lies are very tricky things, this weird kind of lie: fiction, imposes upon, on YouTube or out in the real world, on Facebook!, Canadian government ads, looking at her phone skeptically, who are they doing that for, words and speech shape reality, it is very hard to lie without words, deception is wonderful (but not the same thing as a lie), keep a score chart, the Paul Turner, great notes at the back, this wonderful thing about the internet, Bobby Derie, a Lord Dunsany story finds out her mother was a bicycle, read it for myself, a blessing, what’s uniquely twitter about that, Jonathan’s hate obsession, because fuck you, that’s why, good facts drive out bad fact, track it down and read it for myself, Jesse doesn’t trust etexts, a paper scan, radical skepticism, not able to communicate or have a discourse, limits what we can know, do your own research, doesn’t really solve the problem, climate change research, we have to rely, do we have to do climate change research, Jesse can solve this one, dentist’s expertise, you can’t do that work yourself very easily, you can cut your own hair, Bryan Alexander talking about climate change, start noticing details, as school is wont to do, a poem for Biden’s inauguration, a really horrible poem, what causes climate change, carbon dioxide, methane, the biggest human release of greenhouses gases ever, do I need to care, opposition to climate science, literally Jesse’s point, a gas fireplace, what should Jesse do to reduce his carbon footprint, Naomi Klein, if you really wanted to stop it, recycling garbage better, is this something I need to care about, know it by its signs, you will know him by his ways, no impact on public policy, Aaron Bushnell had an effect, the South Vietnamese govt didn’t fall because of Buddhist monks lighting himself on fire, mentally ill, repost pro Aaron Bushnell, a great example of why you shouldn’t believe in lies, he believed a lot of lies, lionize him, make him into a hero, a martyr, a value judgement, a particular kind of hero, if you watch the video, guy in a tower with a rifle, made a recording of himself, people are allowed to be towers with rifles, douse themselves, become celebrities, celebrity status, making heroes out of people who commit suicide, a bunch of soldiers burned their uniforms, in favour of suicide, something you can actively do, not all the time everyday, when necessary and appropriate, it’s courageous, a horrible situation for everyone involved, good when the morale is low, would you like the armed forces to have high morale, against his orders, show up for duty, a much better duty, to the question of lying, are we telling lies about his suicide, he put the lie to the idea the United States isn’t involved, he communicated information, not in the official papers of record, if there are such things in future, reacting to an official lie, a value judgment against, can value judgements be false?, maybe it was a juvenile, even the bad ones, we are involved, we’re trying to start a peace process (when you’re not), that wasn’t so bad, a thoughtful people, lady with a fidget spinner stock photo ad department, really horrible, a black lady is looking at her phone like its shat on a bed, Roger Waters, all American hero, take heed of the dream, Mr. Social Responsibility, why are you so against suicide?, numerous things people do, being a soldier, a chance you’re going to die, being a police officer, all forms of self sacrifice, the Grand Army of the Republic was full of heroes, objecting to seeing it in your timeline, glad able to see it, a false characterization, would stop people from doing more suicides, terrorist video discourages people from doing terrorism, a video of a guy blowing up, actual example, screaming Free Gaza, school shooters, Columbine sparked many copycats, why are you against suicide, against suicide, people killing themselves is cool, not cool, stressful, not the same thing as killing other people, The Sorrows Of Young Werther by Johann Wolfgang Goethe, the right side of history, just look at the videos, there seems to be something bad happening, whatever this is is very very bad, asked to participate, let’s genocide them, fairly modern word, the case of Columbine, that was caused by school, force people to do things, this institution was difficult, we all know school is prison, a metaphor but also true, a kid brought a gun to school, that’s power, a solution to problems, mimeticly interested in copying each other for attention, the answer isn’t to ban talk about school shootings, Uvalde, how fucking incompetent everybody is, Weird Tales poems about suicide, suicide is scary, let’s talk about it, that’s pretty rough, the suicide bombers, can’t use the message of the media, take other people with you, Duck! The Carbine High Massacre (1999), institutions, conforming, a vicious cycle, Columbine is getting revenge, Bushnell is doing the opposite, the video and what he said, they’re not flattering to the powers that be, a cognitive estrangement from what Jesse saw in the video, as a musician vs. his politics, music is dangerous, suicide not dangerous, The Wall, John Taylor Gatto, Mark Fisher, also other things, this truthy book, how do we best address lies?, position of extreme skepticism, they’re all liars, try never to lie, practice deception, feeling stupid is bad, try not to call people on their lies when they’re weak and young, biggest dangerous liar ever, NFB documentary about Canada’s involvement in the first Gulf War vs the second, Laurentian elites, involved itself in the Afghanistan war, a NATO obligation, the best friend to the evil bully, if it were to happen again today, Justin’s in charge, things have changes, former prime ministers of Canada, Brian Mulroney, Jean Chretien, people are noticing, pushing the lie hard enough, how do you deal with lies in the world around you?, skepticism to a lot of things, don’t trust, trust is a bad word, access to the calendar, that’s no way to live, you have to trust things, if you study things well, do your homework, that’s not trust, take it for what it is, this isn’t immediately my sense perception, prove to me that Lincoln lived, was Joan of Arc a real person, a ticket to France, a photograph of a girl riding a horse, why did the British burn her corpse, to make her as fictional as Jesus or Batman or Spider-Man, theological reasons, she’s a witch, Mark Twain’s Joan of Arc book, seems reasonable sort of, lies in the narrative, an ideological opposition to the concept of trust, when a person behaves a certain way, certain traits, continue on, an unstable person, making a model of your mind, the word trust is the problem there, read something in the New York Times, like all the Hamas rapes, omitting part of the story, perspective, interests, shape a news story, a Jimmy Dore video, he’ll literally say anything, willing to say anything, about hair dye, I just decided it was time to stop smoking weed, need to make a video about it, not a pothead, he’s got this guy [Kurt Metzger], he’s like Johnny Carson’s sidekick (Andy Richter), writes the jokes, if he started to disagree, laughing and nodding and agreeing, selling subscriptions, during COVID he stopped pushing subscriptions, people stopped taking their boosters, he’s not a messiah, makes him a businessperson, some really good videos, a lot of his videos have been demonitized, he’s richer than me, small socialist podcasts and Maissa, literally doing it for the money, that’s a theory, he’s angry, that’s what drives him, he has a right to be, nothing sincere about him, both sincere and untrustworthy, both insincere and untrustworthy, the untrustworthiness, down on the populism, they’re not incompatible, socialized medicine, very exacting of issues of race, radical republicans in North Carolina, lowest common denominator, we need people to think hard, not unique to any ideology, a modern hate for populism, Will’s opposition to populism, makes movements happen, Martin Luther King as a populist, abusing the term, he got people other than black involved, Malcolm X, different plans of execution, a moving target, both got shot in the end, both on the right track, a leader of organizations, part of an institution, the Nation of Islam, Black Panthers, more like Leninist party, fairly hostile to the idea of the truckers, some Albertans are strangely attracted to the Texas story, a rebelling symbol for Canadians, resentment towards Ontario and Quebec, what you saw was people waving confederate flags, a Nazi flag (probably planted), all the Canadian flags, Westerners trying to get a meeting with the country, Fuck Trudeau flags, an illegal war measure’s act, a non-violent civil protest, a lot of brown truckers, not a white only tiki torch parade, Trudeau called them white supremacists, the Coutts border crossing story Alberta, the story is dissolving, the excuse, the inciting incident for the War Measures Act, not factions, CBC and CTV and Global, political goals, a tactic, their goal is to promote a war in Ukraine, honouring a Nazi in the House of Commons, believing this propaganda, they did that, there’s video of it, still obsessed with, different versions of reality, the other factions, don’t have the introspection, forces that tell lies, all factions lie equally, the story of Ukraine briefly, the Maidan coup, the good guy, the bad guy is the United States, lot of Soviet backstory, Sevastopol, everything was inevitable, invaded that country, defensive, is it conquering, definitely invaded, take over or take back, the 12th century, fight and defend that national identity, that’s the story, opening the door to iridentism, that’s why Putin tried to explain the history, there’s this country that’s trying to add members, why does NATO exist, makes sense, extend control, is that irredentism, Victoria Nuland, there’s a thing going on, Russians who live in Ukraine, Nazis in Ukraine, negotiation possible here, Boris Johnson was flown in to cancel a peace deal, who’s the bad guy?, which one is which?, they just canceled elections, this is not Putin bad as usual, been to Russia, December 2003-2004, cutting off their gas supply, going on for decades, he got turned back, stuck on their lines, the annexation of Crimea happened right away, conquer in steps, defeated, that’s not what happened, how strong the Ukranian army is, reading the Russian narrative, when the Bolsheviks take over, the useful idiots, Stalin killed a lot of people, the Soviets themselves, crushed by the Bolsheviks, the anarchists, believe blindly in the cause, Will does not endorse Jesse’s views, can spot a lot of propaganda, very passionate, the tell, when they get emotional about it, detached from the horror that’s happening, how can people watch this, there’s no chatter, last day to nominate for the Hugos, we’re never done with the Hugos, why am I following this person?, strong opinions about the Ukraine war, do you know the Maidan coup, did you hear the Nuland phone call?, the English language German propaganda channel on YouTube (Deutsche Welle), she has a different take on it, watch Jimmy Dore all day, watch opposition, Deutsche Welle on who blew up Nordstream?, rented a boat maybe, events are still unfolding, not like a super-secret mystery, we will end it, rumbled by methane gas, maybe there’s another story, when you investigate, take information you learn and then check on it, what does this drug do?, not trust, verify, she just likes to google, check up on the animals, things happen, and you like them, Jesse’s theory of truth, discern something close to the truth, Jonathan: common sense and if people are emotional it’s probably propaganda, disconnect because he’s in history, Evan expert opinion, Will is epistemologically humble, learning something, that’s actually really good, trust me I’ve read Heinlein, you can just read Scalzi, the worst path, trust this lady, Our Opinions Are Correct, the authorship of The Loved Dead, that’s what Bobby Derie said, almost all Lovecraft, Eddy saying can you help me write a story, a lot of Eddy, very little Lovecraft, Lovecraft influenced for sure, withhold judgement, his influence on Weird Tales, they lived in the same town, almost all the revisions, strong documentary evidence, some themes, feel these were useful idiots, read Soviet history, what is to be done?, historians of the Soviet Union, are you going trust Stalin or your own lying eyes, Stephen Kotkin three volume biography of Stalin, being impartial, somebody on YouTube who has an agenda, good science, what would happen if we put this thing in the press?, Beyond The Press, that’s science, how the world is flat, Wacky Jacky does PUBG science, doing the science, literal science, the stakes of truth, high stakes, fun stuff, Ivermectin as a cure for science (cancer), the NIH website, a powerful effect, resources, person hours, a generic, try not to go the pharmacy, don’t trot that out, too soon, the horse paste tweet is still up, pushing Ivermectin is horse paste, c’mon man, they had never heard of it before, a very popular drug, super-safe and super-effective, the one worms episode of House, M.D., medical funs, very hard to overdose on it, public domain anybody can make it, maybe Jesse will make his own, the medical industry should be socialized, just made a deal, the NDP made a deal with evil Justin, already solved in BC, still working on the dental stuff (kids and old people), super-evil, in this particular time with his limited amount of seats, no news like that in the States, all the horrible news, Canada funding Ukraine, a lung cancer vaccine in Cuba, Venezuela, a trade embargo with the US, 2016, you think they’d like to sell a product they’d make some money, their fault they’re not selling it, immunotherapy treatment, small cell lung cancer, go follow that person on twitter, after a few tweets, do your own research, if everybody had a twitter, accidentally tweeted using Biden’s account, reading is dangerous, almost always leads to believing a big lie, exactly the point he’s making, he’s Jonathan, mythological adaptations, influenced by Lucian, parody it, Atalanta, good Atalanta book?, a woman who wants to run, the huntress, equal in weight, Arcadia, the Argonaut, allied to the goddess Artemis, a bunch of fun stuff, Jason turned her away, hence her name, takes place after, Meleager, got the hots for this chick, so furious they kill Meleager, the Golden Apple story, Beyond Lies The Wub by Philip K. Dick, a retelling of the Circe story, Out In The Garden, the Zeus one, Zeus action had happened earlier, regular Zeus action, Philip K. Dick and Robert Sheckley don’t disappoint, some adjacent things, Not Far From Eden, sold twice as much, special knowledge, boring, not exposed to it anymore, Go The Fuck To Sleep, so relatable to so many, Samuel Jackson, a synergy, not a great book, very little to do with the quality of the material, an artist, commercial and an artist, commerce and art intersect, 20 Books To 50K, debunked all the time, pyramid scheme, still gonna buy their time shares, The Man In The Iron Mask, you need that man in there, Who by Algis Budrys, Library Of America put it out, the original cover, smoking, robot arm, WHO?, the bases of base kinds of ways of reading a story, a film starring Elliot Gould?, a kidnapped physicist, cold war stuff, transhumanist stuff, transhumanism as a horrible idea, available as an audiobook, Grover Gardner?!, up Jonathan’s alley, ideas, sex and violence, 60s early 70s, experimentation, the pulp stuff, a bad book with interesting ideas, you did it, Will’s taking responsibility, DMing Jesse, Dorsai!, military SF that starts a series, rather read the shorter version, The Genetic General, revised into a longer book, a one-off, modern horror, The Slob by Aron Beauregard and Talia by Daniel Volpe, a lady photographed liking a knife, Godless bookstore, Drew Stepek, satanic imagery, modern horror, three year anniversary, transgressive literature, Carry On Puking by REEKFEEL, gold amongst these hills, transgressive but is it good?, reading classical stuff, rounds and rounds of criticism, reading newer stuff, culture happening right now, underground culture, the letters, The Dead Inside by Chandler Morrison, supporting suicide, 5 hours basically, love horror and love gore, body horror, the book had no plot, words on the page written just because, belittling my intellect, propaganda, emo wannabe teen, the most revolting things they could think about, yay!, dead females of all ages, scarfing down a dead newborn, you already know how the book ends, just put 2 plus 2 together, cannibalism etc., most helpful, set aside a whole day to process what you read, staring at the ceiling, at the clinical scene, laughing like a maniac, no idea who I would recommend it to, map of my mind, 6 hours 32 minutes, a disgusting house of horrors, the shudder pulps, fought tooth and nail, fled the disastrous situation, sinister seed, blossom, stomach churning, strives for normalcy, shine through the darkness?, splatterpunk, Son Of The Slob, gross out, are they cannibals, Stories Of The Stone Age by H.G. Wells, The Valley Of The Blind, doesn’t need to be as long as it is, 15 minute story, gross out horror, 1 star reviews, gore for the sake of gore, glorified torture porn, men have no business writing women, incredibly transparent and predictable, like in Heinlein, credulity, first instinct, slasher flick, genres have cliches, if it weren’t for the character is brutally SAed, sexually assaulted, magically pregnant by her assailant, what the issue is there, stay away from this book, Jonathan suggested it, many positive reviews, good to know about, this group exists, do I need to be one of them, science fiction is about science, sometime the science is loose, kind of a science, books about geology, more geo-SF, a horror writer, Scott Sigler’s EarthCore, mystery box story, mining, not science fiction, more like suspense, the geology is just there to get in the way of getting to the mystery box, humans play in a galactic football game, giant alien football league, the story of Wool and other stuff, a bad example, he looks like science fiction but he is not, the guy behind Stranger Things, Bishop’s Assistant, two episodes of Joe Rogan?, mentioned him, Kevin James and Joey Diaz, podcasts on IMDB, pathetic and weird, monetize their fame through podcasts, something you gotta do now, Prince Harry and Megan, the Obamas, no skill for it, Russell Brand is a pretty good streamer, celebs with nothing to say, Obama did one with Bruce Springsteen, famous people like to meet other famous people, had something to say at some point in his life, a 26 minute one, not like this lengthy beast, this wonderful conversation, the slightness of the material in some respects, a mental map of our listeners, Mike Nowak in North Carolina?, David Currie, being a conspiracy theorist, what’s the conspiracy theory Jesse believes in?, a catchall, ancient aliens, fascinated by them, the CIA killed JFK, the big book, The Devil’s Chessboard by David Talbot, we don’t have the video of Allen Dulles up on the grassy knoll, all circumstantial, 25 hours, take JFK’s assassination out of it, calling it the CIA vs. a particular subset, pick a year, this is how they operate, because we say they, start digging into the history of Guatemala or any country, really something, still parts of it are redacted, you can see what happened on the ground, a tier list, untrusted countries, if you start backwards, reconstruct the pyramid, how much money goes to Egypt, Gibraltar still a thing, Sevastopol, the Bosphorus, why geography is important, ismthus are important, look into geology, nitty gritty of which particular person, we can know by learning, geography is so important, really useful, Jesse’s model of Jonathan is not really robust, the emotional content, a disconnect, a real strong connection to horror, connecting to emotions in a disconnected way, a plastic skull, go back to one of the graves, if not thinking about death daily, think about death the just right amount, meditate and not have intrusive thoughts, intrusive negative thoughts, what are those negative thoughts about, a mustache that doesn’t grow the way I want it to, vanity, your pretty but you’re not as smart as you think you are, being ugly, kinda average, looks like a dude, no he’s smart to, fuck that guy, young smart handsome, fucker, in good shape too, too much time writing and recording, goddamn him, make him my friend, no alternative, lucky it didn’t stare in the mirror all day, Narcissus, both in water, when were mirrors invented, animals, dangerous, very dangerous, some of them need to be shared, big cats, caracal, what the hell is that thing?, is that me?, Dungeons & Dragons displacer beast, horrifying, lion videos, exhibit behavior, mountain lions, pumas, african lions, russians wrestling bears, probably unwise, lifestyle, culturally relativistic, a poem about a caracal in a coracle, one of Jesse’s finest pieces, two fishmen coming out of the sea, teaching the children about literature, constructed it well,
Picnic For Two by Jesse
Down on the beach, a couple lays food
On blanket and plate (in amorous mood).Up In the sky two gulls play, dive, and laugh
Singing for supper (each bird will get half).Stealthy, out from the waves two Fishmen arise
Carrying wet nets to seize and demise.The Fishmen have nets! RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!
The Fishmen are fishing (for husbands, for wives)The couple are running as hard as they can!
But Fishmen are quicker: catch woman-catch man!The gulls now descend to blanket and food.
Laughing and eating. (They were quite shrewd)
triangular mimetic desire, french guy, lusting after a hot dog, looking at the guy lusting after the girl eating the hot dog, making people want things, Cirsova claimed that Burroughs mad him jump, be jumpable, an adventure book, wish fulfillment, it’s something else, a subset of a weird hobby, a subset of fiction readers, intentionally made itself irrelevant by focusing on science, big hits, a mimetic desire thing, social contagion, thinking your a girl when you’re not a girl, Tommy Patrick Ryan had Harry Potter tattoo, a Lord of The Rings tattoo, schoolbooks, books set in schools, less said about her the better, still on about her being a TERF, the Salvation Army is bad on trans issues?, what does that have to do with anything, Amazon’s really bad, nobody seems to care, store our data there, do bad things, an ethics to storing your data, for technical reasons, giving Amazon money, Strange Studies Of Strange Stories, say something really stupid, busy with wives and kids, not deeply invested, stand with Ukraine sort of stuff, sending money to Israeli bombs, crazy, a video of Ukraine mercenaries in Gaza, the pay is better, being in the IDF is a little bit safer, for a minute there, bizarre but predictable, the wrong take on it, we’re not going to show because…, for the purposes of their purposes, allowed, allowed by whom, just an excuse, advertisers wouldn’t not like it either, looking at himself in the mirror, the water is still, a leopard looking at a caracal with a meercat underneath, how humans work, The Great Train Robbery, installing a ruin, Sean Connery is boning his wife, the worst aspect, egregious example, big long action movies, Michael Bay, Independence Day (1996), people watching a TV, the proxy for the audience, a group of people siting in front of a screen, you’ve gone to far, continue as you were, but no screens, layer one deep only, you can’t show the screen, it’s two much, the escher painting where the guy is drawing himself, post modernism, a mistake is what it is, basically over now, post-post-ironic, it’s called decline, been subsumed, just not there anymore, Orhan Pamuk, Madonna, very orange hair, the building is leaning, strangest nationality, Canadian-American, most evil nationality, write speeches for George W. Bush, Semiotics, a very bad man, David Frum, very horrible, Barbara Frum, Conrad Black, [Barbara Amiel], axis of evil, house of lords, convicted of stealing from his own company, [Barbara Amiel] columnist in MacLeans, an art to produce a lot of words, what she’s saying is not good, style ideas, taste ideas, who cares about that?, believed in Canada and the Queen and Jesus, a lot more sympathetic to it now, very scary, a great Wikipedia note, a campaign volunteer, The Gulag Archipelago, right to jeer at him, why did his mom give him a copy of that book, a very popular book, why was it popular?, exactly, an examination of a prison system in a foreign county, promoted to demonize another country, Nobel prize winning book, Animal Farm, forced to read it, a much better book, a lot of movies, strange things, dollar store Goosebumps style books, copy of Dune, breezy easy for an adult, makes you wanna read it, each chapter starts with a future historical document, shit all over John W. Campbell as much as you want but something good out of it, less deranged, Jesse fucked that up, who the fuck is Barbara Frum, fucked up the Barbaras, almost as bad to have claimed, Altered Carbon, elementary school punch, always in fights, always the new kid, subject to predation, punch your way out of being a bitch, predated upon continuously, kick the shit out of them, she’s on your team, all the snitching and all the horrors, the violence, high school violence, grade 9, committed not had, weekly there was something, you should pick on big people, older kids, don’t let people trash you, fuck them up, there’s no violence on twitter, that SFFaudio guy is an asshole, telling people things they don’t want to hear, confusing Hugo Book Club with another Hugos There, multiple Hugo accounts, this is not anything, stalking horror, a youtube video, true crime is so fucking evil as a genre, lots of women are into it, Truman Capote’s In Cold Blood, a non-fiction book that’s a novel, a whole bunch of things that don’t make sense, what the fuck can you learn from that?, random shit can happen?, lock your doors?, criminologists, interesting things to know about crime, innovated, eloquent prose, stuff Jesse doesn’t think about, H.P. Lovecraft, be about something, exploring an idea, fictionalized scenes, no witness there, a Lawrence Block book [Not Comin’ Home To You], very short, ops, a lot of the art shit is ops, Iowa writer’s workshop, a media figure, he took Harper Lee with him, childhood friends, To Kill A Mockingbird (1962), Gregory Peck, Boo Radley, Robert Duvall’s great, Guns Of Navarone (1961), Pulpcovers, set in Yugoslavia, Richard Kiel (Jaws), Force 10 From Navarone (1978), a sequel that came out 9 years later, Robert Shaw (the actual Jaws (1977) guy), being on the Indianapolis, young Harrison Ford, Edward Fox, Franco Nero, Carl Weathers, young and handsome, special ops mission to blow up something, Alastair MacLean, probably won’t love it.
Posted by Jesse Willis
William Hamilton Osborne (1873-1942) wrote 
