Reading, Short And Deep #484 – The Sea-Serpent by E. Pauline Johnson

Reading, Short And Deep

Reading, Short And Deep #484

Eric S. Rabkin and Jesse Willis discuss The Sea-Serpent by E. Pauline Johnson

Here’s a link to the story |PDF|.

The Sea-Serpent from Legends Of Vancouver, 1911.

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The SFFaudio Podcast #838 – READALONG: Fury by Henry Kuttner

The SFFaudio Podcast #838 – Jesse, Will Emmons and Cora Buhlert talk about Fury by Henry Kuttner

Talked about on today’s show:
one eight of his wife, the Gabrielle DeCuir read intro, pretty crappy, good, a little evil, the book was evil, calling things evil, pathetic, pretty pathetic, a Slan style book, Henry Kutter do good work, quite pathetic, to the mind of Jesse, summarize what the book is about and why anyone would care about it, read aloud the final up to this point in the serialization, Jonathan wanted to do it, Jonathan blocked Jesse, okay, seems like the plot’s starting now, texting a friend about it, a sci-fi from the 40s, everyone is lazy, amoral swindler, wouldn’t seem immortal, the necessary shock to society, jungle surface of Venus, immortal, some facts about the book, that’s interesting, interesting is not the same as a book, most interesting section, the introduction by C.L. Moore, what she contributed to it, I added the colours, I’m interested in tragic love, the theme that Henry Kuttner was going for, not trusting authority, what’s this book about, 1947, a decade or less into the welfare state, people don’t take responsibility for themselves anymore, pull their pants up, muddled by this immortality thing, a hot topic in science fiction, very immature, immature thinkers, everybody groks it, maybe I won’t, first grey hair, no no I’m not going to die, Heinlein has done this, not new to Kuttner, these mutant elites, a villain or a hero, agreed, a Will Emmons obsession, The Stars My Destination, Alfred Bester, feels shorter, passion, experimental, wish Jonathan was here, not just blame him for this book, wasted a week, wrong philosophy, a modern book that’s similar, not modern at all, by a lady, Beggars In Spain by Nancy Kress, obsessed with not liking her, this book is evil, what makes it evil, take it in and say yes yes, the reason they’re better than you, genetic engineering, they can study all night while you’re lazy sleeping at home, all Elon Musk, inherited an emerald mine, all non-sleepless are contemptible, told from the pov of a persectued Slan, same libertarian vibe, why can’t your parents give that to you, plotting to murder everyone else on the planet, standard x-men, a sidestory in X-Men, look there’s a new mutant!, contemptible, a symapthetic view on both side, Golden Man cat, when Philip K. Dick did it, what if the ideal form of humanity has no brain?, a muddled version of that Nancy Kress book, more serialized, disgruntled guys, not strong enough to be evil, a toddler with a knife, dangerous, not evil…yet, both have fury, way more anger than this book, this book is not angry at all, a dispossessed slan, a rebel undermenchen, a good book, intellectual center of gravity, society under the keeps, no one is striving anymore, you don’t see any of that, a lot of tell and no show, a lot of churn, when he meets the prophet, also an immortal, not a robot, comes back later, exactly how C.L. Moore put it, we wrote this for money and there was no plan, the cloak that makes you feel nice and is a drug and kills you, what is this book about?, drugs?, not about video games?, a failed Heinlein book, the Methusela’s Children series, eugenics and a kilt, a secret society of immortals, flee for the skies, forget that Heinlein, not top five, he thinks its interesting, an immature idea, welfare state, immortal technocrats ruling everything, what is he really mad at?, his dad?, sad story?, temper tantrum, surgery, you don’t feel it, so upsetting, gut punch, skin is coming off, you don’t like the character but you’re with him, worse a nice blue dress one time, not boring, just bad, shoulda clued in, in Astounding, that magazine that’s not very good, another joint, Chan Davis, Pseudoscience In Naziland by Willy Ley, emigrated from Naziland, he’s the good german, pre-paperclip guy, paling around with the bad German, didn’t hang the three slowest Jews, upsetting, our modern rocket guy has a lot of problems, not literally a Nazi, fires some employees, capitalism bad, bad tweets, not literally an SS officer, John W. Campbell editorials, up his own smoke, high on his supply, telepathy or whatever, understand the impulse, dated this girl, no good reason to believe in it, running similar software, parallel possibilities, as to actual evidence, assessing, way too much based on that, of all the things that have happened to science fiction since the 1940s, what we’re doing now, Stefan Rudniki, a bad book, redeeming qualities, the devastating last line, weird authorial, the start of the immortal hero, a genre, the Amber book (Roger Zelazny), Phra The Phoenician, maybe Kuttner would have known, Gulliver Of Mars, His Vacation, a book that Cirsova (Alex) would like, portal fantasy, doesn’t take itself too seriously, the Mars books, crunchier, softer, sweeter, less filler, more killer, crashes on a planet, lands on a philosopher who’s a girl, go to a library, frozen dead people, magic carpet again, green muscle mommy, Soja?, Tars Tarkas’ daughter, a 40 foot lance, a big lance, lances were big in those days, pikes, the roundheads were overworked, a weird zone, the knife alluring, who’s the knife for?, for everyone?, there are no everyone, a guy who doesn’t know who he is, the priest who’s not the computer, blue dress, grandma, a lady who has a granddaughter, secretly, that reveal did nothing, why are we reading all this, the symbol of cash, the genealogy at the top of the story, the Bible’s a lot shorter, what things would happen in it?, deformed as an infant, see the lady, get got, colonization scheme, cheat everyone, wake up confused, get involved in the next colonization scheme, lost the thread, find the lady, 3 card monte, move their hands quickly, bet your money, a street level grifting scam, shills, they share the money, anytime the mark is gonna win the police show up, the guy who’s been gambling arrested, find the lady is a way to steal money from people, other than with my time, too scammed, after paying my 75 cents for 3 issues, not a good story, nothing is substantive in an idea way, the sea-creature that’s now a cloak, corrosive planets, just did a genocide of the entire ecosystem, for plot, for stuff to happen, telepathy, useless, pathetic, not even mad, wasted a week, sad, waste, Kutter is worse than Jesse thought he was, wrote so much, would write anything, Dragon Moon, a cover story on Weird Tales, just type in Dragon Moon, viking stabbin at a dragon, blonde in a green dress, the wild hunt, enthusiastically riding, cool looking, a novelette of drowned Atlantis, bad name, beyond good or evil, the Outside, a Chesterton quote, that Silverberg highlighted, Home Is The Hunter, Silverberg wrote a great essay about it, Kipling quotes, a secondary world almost, where’s the tech?, the closest we get is that cloak, a poisonous world, Clark Ashton Smith, sex and death, sexless, longs after a girl, breed generations of sex slaves, goes nowhere, people got tricked by the ending, immortality, is this something?, the meme with a butterfly, not furious or perverted enough, pretty cold blooded, deleting the entire ecosystem of Venus, plants that were dangerous, the drug addiction, no real life world experience, wasn’t a pioneer, didn’t kick a drug habit, hey I got a real theme going here, dreamdust, turns out he was in the backroom of the wizard’s cave the whole 40 years, okay, more Arthur stuff, Arthur Pendragon, put him underground, return and lead the people, a business startup, a free companionship, a startup designed to defraud investors, doesn’t doing any kind of running and grabbing, should be a lot madder, furiless and didn’t inspire fury, “Robin Hood’s barn”, the idiom, a robin hood’s barn sort of plan, at some point in a novel the novel reviews itself, a short story should have working components that are used and dissipated at the end of the story, spell components, three pinches of newt dust, Helen’s bones, blood from a surly teenager, disappears in a puff of smoke, shit lying all over the table, shocker, not impressed, people were smarter in the past, the reviews in the magazine itself, people should have been reading Thrilling Wonder and Planet Stories, if it was priority, Planet, Thrilling Wonder, five or six other magazines, Astounding, other magazines, the fifties explosion of science fiction, WWII, the wonder weapons, the rockets, people were not with rockets before WWII, almost nobody was into rockets, showing the v-2 rockets being tested in the states, the letters columns, talking about the v-2s, the censorship, circumspect, the V-1s hitting London, rockets are really taking off, Planet Stories, Fantastic Adventures, almost nothing good in it, Ray Palmer, somebody should have stopped him, too much power, exploit this mentally ill man, inner earth man, not just Shaver mysteries, worldview and approach to life, maybe people in the past were stupid too, UFOs, the truth is out there, UFO freak, if I believe in God, people get tripped up on words, barely a teenager, as if you know what you’re talking about, unidentified, what the hell is that thing, not a U, FO, trapped in the world salads, a spell, bring it back to the thing itself, talk to Meg about this story, okay to lie to people for the greater good, this story poses, immediately in the positive, try never to lie, communicating is complex, the outside thing about this thing, more specific about specific things, the way to think about this, just do this, what is an essay, here’s how we’re going to get a good mark, don’t write anything you don’t believe, play with the truth, telling the teacher that you know that, nobody knows what the word “essay” means, what is he trying to do?, what is the purpose of this?, how you do paragraphs, just filling the page, fulfilling the requirements, try to make good sentences, truth is very important, things are complex, words get in our way and trick us, that’s not how things work, this guy from 500 years ago still lives through, a cloud of understanding, trynna trick people, we’re gonna make you all immortal, working at this for 7 years, ha ha fuck you, a worker’s cooperative, that’s evil, for your own good, that’s a liar, what did Meg say?, undoubtedly evil, okay for the government to lie to us about UFOs, people can’t handle the truth, their gonna die, why we have religion, pretty sure, a mystery that can transcend, exactly like to was before I was born, isn’t it interesting I’m a brain in a vat already, includes skin and bone and digestive systems, sense data, that’s interesting, doesn’t make me think of a particular god, strange phenomena for the long time, a wish for immortality, a big part of it for a lot of people, lying definitely bad, we can’t handle it, lie to people to get them to do something good, back to The Stars My Destination, spoiler alert, superweapon, telepathically activated, gives it to the masses, now its your responsibility, hero, they don’t destroy the solar system, everybody needs nukes, if you don’t have hands, we want people to have hands, a real disadvantage for Sirius, Odd John, Olaf Stapledon, Kuttner can disappoint, a C.L. Moore stan, people love her, she likes hot kisses, scary kisses, atmospheric style, unfinished, that’s all she’s got, she doesn’t bring an idea to the table, Reading, Short And Deep recording, Probate, a legal term, about getting to the will, testament, estate, a science fiction story that deals with ideas in science fiction and dismisses them, mocking an idea by taking it seriously, it’s not what I wanted, it’s what I needed, an X-Men story, slightly telepathic, all the women find him sexy, no frontal lobes, just working on instinct, he’s beautiful, looking at it from a guy who is furious, on the wane, the homo superior are in the room, interested in pathetic things, full of all sorts of foibles, your beautiful child, assembling the components to destroy homo superior, better not the be a fuckin monster, not as fast or beautiful, slower to develop, very contrived and very silly, wham bam deals, A.E. Van Vogt, wipes it off the table and now we’re done, the Olaf Stapledon novel, Eric spoiled the ending, smart moral things to do, action and churn, Fury, boring slog, angry at Nancy Kress book, they’re fucking monster, they remind me of the shitlib bluecheck elite, fuck those Gazans, mad at The Washington Post for not endorsing a lady, let oligarchs fuck the world, seeing where the wind is blowing, the undecided voter, slant of various op/eds, not a big percentage, if Trump becomes president I’ll leave and move to Canada, trying to evoke a reaction, watch another youtube video and they react to it, this movie is too scary, twin brothers watching, a split screen, identical twin brothers, that memesis thing, still 3?, the thing being watched the you watching them, they’re watching each other, strange phenomenon, a girl in her bedroom, Damien Walter, words by himself are better, AI illustration of the Culture, retweeting them, that seems uncharitable, not giving a null prize, is this true?, the reason a lot of people are triggered by Trump is they’ve had no actual trauma, he’s not scary, hundreds of thousands of people being killed on the border, say things that are bad, the bad one, he’s pretty good, he did well that day, mobilize the army to deport people, the apparatus you have to build up, mobilized as a law enforcement agency, he was president already, he’s not very much like Hitler, he shouldn’t be that triggering, more like Heinlein than Hitler, only two people in the world, like the Little Prince, one is Heinlein and one is Hitler, pick your fighter, the future that liberals want, he’s not scary, internal enemies, the organized left, Palestine protestors, Arab Americans for Trump, pro-United States, Benjamin Netanyahu needs to finish the job, he talks a lot, what does he do, a different coalition, his staff, all the neocons, alienated John Bolton, learned his lesson, a confirmed Jill Stein voter, voted Green, when he says things he means them, a liar, he is a liar, I’m the best, I got the best people, the best country, the worst country, hyperbolic, is he lying when he says I want to use the military, on day one or maybe day two, someone who’s never been visited by the FBI, you live in a police state, he likes the FBI too, he’s a lot worse on Canada, the Free Trade Agreement, he’d be worse for Canada and better for the United States, doesn’t like communists, don’t understand what communists are, if Kamala is a communist, people you call communist, the dialogue is broken, we’ll see, laudable and good, more risk, the Black Uhuru movement, lazier under Democratic administrations, sleepier, drone stuff, domestic stuff, the MOAB, Soleimani, German government English propaganda channel, Venezuela, it wasn’t me who did the coup, fiddles with pen, in amongst that, persecute Russia more, secret talks, divide Venezuela and Russia, the State Department is running things, the Deep State hates him so much, a bad sign, tryna cozy-up, Bezo was vying for government contracts, less naked about it, Elon Musk picked a team, a lottery, he’s levering, For You, the ultimate test of self-government, returned your grocery cart, social contract, a fool’s framework, very simple, littering, mom didn’t tell you to don’t do that, why do people litter?, really strange lady, weird tiny house lady, keeps building things, trying things out, squeezing the juice out of her life, list of all the things that she’s tried, business startups, raise parrots, adopted from her or genetics, systems, don’t try to buy your way into hobbies, not lose money, you have to work harder outside, interested in parrots, very expensive, breed them, they’re in the house, there’s always more food, all that shit that spills on the ground, all the other animals do well, they eat and they drop food, we think of that as littering, not offensive at all, that’s what parrots do, dirtying their own environment, in a primitive society, sidewalks are a strange invention, do we need more sidewalks, not get run over, easier to get places, should we have roads?, they just tell you where to go, trails, humans in solidarity with other humans, just another animal, we train puppies not to pee in the house, they become upset, very similar to that, he’s not wrong, would you let this guy marry your daughter, he doesn’t return shopping carts, contemplating this, her being able to marry, implausibility, whether he litters or not, a stage everybody goes through, eventually your washing the dishes, community standard, Jesse’s weird, very childish, the grocery is like a government, somebody’s going to have to pick up after me, a boundary, get all your dirty laundry, your space, litter in your own room, don’t attract mice, this office, elected to the spare bedroom, the podcasting office, disenfranchised cats, peeing on the wall, exclusionary, the bourgeoisie, enclosed the commons, the crown, what a world, this election shit, provincial election came and went, Richard Lovelace, one of those cavalier poets, clergy in the house of Lords, wanting the king in charge, better than Oliver Cromwell, Lord Protector, sounds like Napoleon again for the first time, get Napoleon III in charge, starting a list of the bad guys, Franco is on there somewhere, 19th century Stalin, a reformer, he put his brother in charge of Spain, make sure Spain doesn’t flip, the pattern, people trying to reinstate the king, why invading Ireland?, they’ll getcha, these Levelers, manhood suffrage, religious toleration (not for Catholics), modern liberal democracy, in bed with Cromwell, in the New Model Army, didn’t split the movement, this weird phenomenon, this English Civil War, conjure radical forces, aren’t able to use, Cromwell is Mao?, Sun Yat-Sen, sorta got his wish, the king’s back, roundheads, a short story by Lawrence Block, good character writer, good plotter, a werewolf story, Original Science Fiction Stories, January 1959, Make A Prison, the first Althean, he won’t languish and die in such a state?, ample opportunity, study the creature, the mere thought of a prison, the whole notion, an abominable one, wouldn’t do, he actually murders, subdue him, physically ill, for goodness sake, now you’ve hit upon it, a party of ten, he struck out at them, unprovoked assault, the first case of murder on record in 30 generations, he eats whatever we feed him, he is dangerous, very dangerous, as possible, perhaps I’m squeamish, positive, 130 feet high, right?, right!, it’s slides slope inward, a pneumatic tube, leaping from the top, littering, it seems safe, it is safe, not cruel, in just a few minutes, such a smooth writer, Cora got her times mixed up, sends her apologies, motor car, motor truck, forced myself to finish a book, she’s right not to like it, limbs securely shackled, the key to his shackles in his quarters, all the angles, one more page to go, a red light at the base, throw down the shackles, not something you see every day, plummeted through the air, he’s found the key, the key followed soon thereafter, gazing down at them, soared off into the sky, what is this story?, a trick, what?!, is this a science fiction story?, mostly a trick, as a practical matter, that’s it?, came across a key, hence Lovelace, a poem from 1642, To Althea From Prison, tangled in her haire, liberty, Thames, careless heads, thirsty grief, fishes that tipple in the deep, when like committed linnets, with shriller throat shall sing, voyce, inlarged, stone walls doe not a prison make, nor iron bars a cage, from an hermitage, angels alone that sore above, Lawrence Block read a poem, recognize those last lines, thing he’s going to be remembered for, secondary world, spun up just to do the joke of the story, that is very science fictional, take the poetic and make it real, okay but not, he is a dragon, that’s now science fiction, take it seriously, this world is not our world, they have motor cars, no murders for 30 generations, who is this creature from outside, how come they didn’t notice he had wings, that’s weird, just a joke, that’s actually, Brave New World is a line from The Tempest, a science fiction movie, that’s a joke, the world’s fucked, the second time it’s serious, the story becomes much better for what its addressing, kings are better than non-kings, in prison for wanting the king back, did some nice poetry, it’s okay girl, we’re like committed linnets, the poetry frees him from prison, the worst Kuttner/Moore book, just a terrible book, needed money, finish the bloody thing, blame Jonathan, partially responsible, worst thing Moore was involved in, knew how bad this one was, the prequel, Clash By Night, 1943, early military science fiction, also with Moore, fertility issues, couldn’t have a baby, miscarriage, contract marriage, mercenaries, jungle planet, The Little Prince, Attitude by Hal Clement, a bad summary, Dream-Quest Of Unknown Kadath, We Print The Truth by Anthony Boucher, unbeatable, it’s okay, the idea of a Little Prince planet, a very Heinleinian book, probably kill Hitler, [Methuselah’s Children?], Lazarus Long, Time Enough For Love, different writers, more sanguine?, philosophically interesting but evil, a toddler with a knife, who’s the knife for, for everyone, constant extolling, hedonism is bad, work them off for nothing, if you’re european, free healthcare, how terrible, second sons, people picked out of the enclosures, we’re plebeians, malcontents, emigrated to the U.S., hung out with the sailors in the harbour bars, she has a good husband, no one would have had her, high-tailed it to the U.S., the failed Bremen Soviet Republic, propaganda, New York City or Boston, the prairies, living in filth, westward expansion, things driving these things, Young Pioneers, colonize moorlands, the Netherlands, moorland colonization, little America, stay here and colonize the moors, after 1848, politically undesired, crises in foreign countries, selling equipment to goldminers, more wary, the lesson Jesse learned, more critical of claims, get a bad one, if you made this into a short story the answer is nothing, this isn’t a science fiction story, science fiction wallpaper, either the wallpaper goes or I do, totally disjointed, not substantive throughout the book, the introduction, some of the world building details, the happy cloak, you could do a story with that, Shambleau, most reprinted Moore, didn’t bother renewing it, sometimes people are dead, sometimes they’re distracted, step-daughter, retro Hugos, 71 Kuttner stories, easy to forget, her second husband, see the documents, SFWA grandmaster, had dementia, half a dozen Kuttners, The Proud Robot [was copyright renewed: “R494633”], asshole, that’s a great story, A God Named Kroo, Killdozer, good at comedy, The Proud Robot, solo Kuttner, fadedpage, the high priest of a Tibetan deity, the body of a yak, a bumbling Indiana Jones, a great story, Science Fiction 101, Worlds Of Wonder, Home Is The Hunter, a science fiction story, soft science fiction, the best kind of science fiction, space opera, hard, wallpaper, the biggest, the most ability to imagine different scenarios, what technology, ideas are kind of technologies, a future that’s not like ours, a post scarcity, 11 pages in Galaxy, credited to both, There’s noboy who I can talk to except myself, all my wives, Honest Roger Bellamy, Hunter, waterfall of marble steps, in all their jewels, this whole story of the narrative of how he got to this situation, he’s a headhunter, the most famous and best people kill each other, legal, proper, encouraged, his life is a misery, one giant rug pull, he woke up, death is real, what do we value, don’t do what he did, throughline in this, immortality is a thing, everybody wants immortality, why does this book exist, to fill pages, paid the rent, good for them, essentially hack work, sticks with me, Philip K. Dick is extraordinary, more short stories, fewer novels, Kuttner wasn’t a novel guy, Earth’s Last Citadel, allies, German spies, humanity has all but died out, huge citadels, rambly, a serious problem during the WWII, everything is about WWII, Fantastic Adventures, a story about fairies set on a military base, offensive, not very good, we gotta be more careful, descentish, Heinlein was too busy to write much, Ross Rocklynne, alien intervention, Killdozer, seabees, haunted machinery story, The Murderous Steam Shovel, Allison V. Harding, elevated train in New York, major food or family holiday, Thanksgiving, fucked up calendar, clumping of Christian holidays, patriotic holiday, Oktoberfest, Halloween, Reformation Day, time off school, a lot of candy, dress up?, native trick or treating traditions, St. Nicholas Day, recite a poem or sing a song, regional, lower German, seasonal poems, santa hats, wassailing, ghosts or Skeletor, paper lantern, Rhineland, Three Wise Men, the black wise man, blackface, paint one guy up, pretend to be a boy?, charitable causes, bless your house, Catholic homes, blessings on the door, Fichte, super Catholic region, the 30 Years War, chalk, imported from the U.S., unknown until the early ’90s, U.S. movies, college student Halloween parties, big candy, Carnival in February or early March, when Iraq, Kuwait, everybody was protesting, standing there, a peace protest, to stop the U.S. from bombing, serious about it at the time, why did we even do this, vulgar pacifistic, the best Halloween costume, a vampire a bunch of times, very good, in college, Doctor Midnight, the Justice Society, the yellow helmet, Doctor Fate, living like Doctor Fate in a tower, much more mysterious and less gay than Doctor Strange, definitively married to a woman, entanglements with women, not a medical doctor?, too many reboots, a few guys, a female Doctor Fate, snippets, the Flash with WWI helmet, stuck some poor guy in this silly helmet, Cora’s best Halloween costume, Psylocke from X-Men, the swords, energy daggers, difficult recreate at the time, Mississippi, Pippi Longstocking, a witch, devils, completely unknown at the time, kindergarten, Star Wars costumes, sexy witch, sexy nurse, Robin with a long cape, goggles, blind but can see in the dark, Daredevil, crescent moons, Watchmen’s owl guy, Batman with no superpowers, owl vehicle, mental patients he needs to punch, pines after a girl, very bad Alan Moore, very good, this is nothing, toxic fans, clickbaity title, something about Trump, fandom is not responsible, used to be quite different, fandom has changed, guys in their 40s, middle aged white guy, furious, LGBTQ women in Star Wars, reboot of a children’s cartoon, I’m A Celebrity, a real show?, super-intellectual, salability, Boris Johnson, Have I Got News For You, the Trump Apprentice thing, a helluva long time ago, not a politician, approach, why does this essay exist, he’s got a new book, funny words, febrile disgruntlement, his prose pieces, he’s a very good comic writer, you can see what he’s doing and you hate, big long letter, League Of Extraordinary Gentlemen, his gandson playing Pokemon, asked to promote his book, random blocked, mocked it, random stranger, didn’t mock him, which hotel that is, a golf shop, what’s the difference, Tars Tarkas was queer, very queer indeed, quick on the block button, fragile, blocklist, win a null prize, H.G. Wells, super-eager to block, pruning what you see on twitter, a super-unfollow, can’t even see it in “For You” now, he’s funny, you don’t want to see him, Swiss weatherman, accused of raping his then girlfriend, consensual, rapist in my timeline, shitty excuse for a secretary of health, international journalist, get police out, really into the block button, never blocked a person, so many people who interact, other people would see it, I like Alan Moore, he’s cool, has problems, he’s gotta be 70, reminiscence of a guy, things have changed lately, “what we’re up against”, New York Times, the movie came out, can’t write about Neil Gaiman, rapist sexist, harassed women into sex, asking them, coercing, different from rape, didn’t rape anybody, otherwise consensual, seduction of minors, sexual abuse, the cutoff age, 17 and half years old, age of consent, lesbians, we forgot about them, still a shitty person, found guilty in the court of public opinion, The Graveyard Book, Coraline, Neverwhere, underground london, a show first, vintage Doctor Who, Sandman is pretty good after the first volume, shouldn’t have been in grace, you shouldn’t have a tattoo of Neil Gaiman, a tattoo of Death, are you into Sandman, girl?, must be into Sandman, he’s not the president, who cares, at a Hugo ceremony, accepting his Hugo for Good Omens, American Gods, special wheelchair van, as soon as the audiobook came out, George Guidall, 13 cassettes, Neil Gaiman in the United States, this overlay of the gods, blank main character, very similar to a Douglas Adams book, he is a good writer, he can write, Snow White Apples, he invented the whole genre of retelling for comics, after the Jim Lee debacle, Sandman, Walking Dead, all the Vertigo comics, Garth Ennis and independents, a little bit of French stuff, Belgian comics, Heavy Metal, 2000 A.D., a popular target, Ya Boi Zack, birthday party clowns, utubers who Cora really hate, Critical Drinker, closeted gays, wands, Captain Marvel movie, it’s stupid, way shittier things, delicious like Taco Bell is, she has no personality, Brie Larson, talk off camera, 2 brains cells to rub together, rewarded through the algorithm for hate, patterns pointing to, this stupid Guardian article is stupid, for retweeting, why are you linking, public health officer in Bavaria, how can you retweet this?, have their own ideas, the Gaza stuff, so horrible, pro-Ukrainian and anti-Russian stuff, what did stop the Iraq War, the 1990 one, treaty, that worked well, still not occupied even tho their occupied, the Taliban are the worst people, who made that happen?, Asian Muslim countries, headscarves, force men to wear beards, put this hat on, kids are roped into it, no kids anymore, kinda the plan, stupid actor, very upset by actors existing, people treat them like they are something, underperformed movies, German culture programs, what kind of show he’s on, political question, Bruce Willis can’t talk at all, a singer before he was an actor, if they write their own music, ring of fire guy, Johnny Cash, Leonard Cohen, quotes and the attribution, almost always a fake attribution, comes with authority, G.K. Chesterton, a Father Brown story, short stories, some people are Catholic, overly religious, doing a C.S. Lewis, asking them to not be religious in their fiction, Jordan Peterson, a stupid smart guy, Patrick Stewart is not Jean Luc Picard, he can perform Shakespeare, Shakespeare is hilarious, Charles Dickens, to be Scrooge, a fun role, a fun character, he performed Scrooge, Charles Dickens performed his books, unrecorded audiobooks, huge captive audience, no recordings of Charles Dickens, died 1870, audiences approved of it, Edgar Allan Poe went to one of them, anticipating the ending, Dickens fan, not enough science fiction, ghost stories, Oscar Wilde, the really gay writers, R. Murray Gilchrist, the yellow 90s, H.W. Hornung, Conan Doyle ripoffs, the Raffles story, the word fag, faggot, that’s not it!, in the British public schools there was a system called “fagging”, massive sexual abuse, that is is the sick part, a term of abuse, punks are on ships and fags are in school, an official and an unofficial system, commit suicide, who he used to fag for, burglary together, really fun and very well written, supergay, Oscar Wilde, great turns of phrase, fagging, that fucked up system, term for gay, being reclaimed, queer, we need the etymology, straight out of weird, the 1920s, gay balls, to dance around or prance, gay boyfriends, loves going to gay clubs, fun to hang out with, another German term, hot and sweaty, warm brothers, Toronto and San Fransisco, Turkish bath culture, totally gay, you carry, you gather wood, the evil part, you have to go to school, like regular prison, they had to go, forced to go, the parents forced them to go, mom I want to be home with you, governess system, the history right in front of us, gay writers, the Will digression, Will is a Jesseologist, his cowl is impossible, coveted the underoos, Conan Jesse with fur diaper, much taller, you’re too old for this, left out, a dog, how to make your Halloween costumes, the one made out of paperbags, paper bags for the ears, coloured pencils, a great costume, what if it rains, self-made, I’m poor, worst Halloween ever, bow was a coat-hanger, at a motel in northern British Columbia, no materials, Jesse had real trauma, a dinosaur, clowns, princess, costume jewelry, Hungarian girl costume, native American person, Romany fortune teller, Chinese woman, queen of hearts, a card-deck, very cheap, easy to due, carnival costumes, grading on a curve, none of your business, don’t vote for the Nazis, socialists, asked all the candidate questions, normal to endorse, Musk is endorsing, the party is dying, don’t say it, mainstream newspaper, we endorse candidate xyz, not doing it is the problem, the high tariffs is a good idea for the United States (terrible for Canada), customs fee, retaliated for tariffs, never took down the tariffs, it sucks to be a colony, next year’s Worldcon in Seattle, say hi to Paul, less littering, self employed, green card, might just stick around, sworn translators, no husband to go back to, not as terrible, crossing the border into the USA, refusing to come Kentucky, maybe under Trump, voted for Biden, pissed off, if they don’t denounce the Nordstream destruction, every American hated it, Ukraine and Russia were getting into squabbles, why do the Poles love the Americans, Polish politicians, owned by the United States, Polish students, a relationship, a girl from Finnland, very mysterious people, a bit reserved, Cora is not reserved at all, weird games, by a Finn, mini-scandal at the Helsinki Worldcon, My Summer Car, you bought a car, your going to fix it up, spray paint, the driving part of the game, something every person did in Finland, buy a second hand car, a Datsun, an alien planet, sauna culture, sweat lodge, demons I gotta exercise, Russian buildings there, don’t take down statues, Sámi people, Inuit is a very strange culture, look and act like Indians, teepees, dog culture, beards, from the same planet, reindeer, bilingual signs, northern cruises, had to go to Greenland, the Kola peninsula, Kamchatka, like Upper Michigan, across the top of the circle, central Asia, the horse people, Turkic peoples, Germans and Dutch, Austrians, what’s the American equivalent, affinity state, near Lexington, Richmond, easter half of the state, Appalachian, east Tennessee, normal Southern, gulf coast, anything South of Virginia, Kentucky accents, from the mountains, Hillbilly, oldest mountain range in the world, the golden triangle, Louisville, south of Cincinnati, totally devastated, stakes are low, technically true, Canada is very big, even in deepest China, Kentucky, horses, the derby, KFC, Kentucky Christ Fuck, ficken, sheiss, German actors, swear in a foreign language, need a girl, Black Widow, in WWII, fight Nazis together, Wolverine, shit friends, a letterer problem, Wolverine’s sense of smell, he sniffs things and he heals, if your bones are gone, his entire skeleton is showing, the new Deadpool movie, Blade, Wesley Snipes, I’m the only Blade, Blade Trinity, before Marvel movies were Marvel movies, a Punisher one, really obscure, Werewolf By Night, Iron Man, the 198[9] Batman, Superman (1979), a Spider-Man fan, he’s like a loser, having a good time, his life is just really bad, more relatable, the comeback, snappy, really smart, snarky, good hearted, he’s a teenager, Mary Jane, Gwen Stacey, in comics, Rogue, can’t be touched, Jean Grey keeps dying, hots for her, an Arthurian thing, she’s the Guenevere, Fantastic Four was entirely a boomer thing, when Beast starts to have Blue skin, master mold, makes other sentinels, Classic X-Men, John Byrne, Chris Claremont, 1975 to the early 1990s, the iconic cover, Days Of Future Past, reading it in Calgary, this is amazing, this is awesome, got some ideas, Jubilee, when X-Force came out, fuck these pouches, an early 90s teenager, Asian American, all good stuff, born in the U.S., mallrat type, sprinklers, Dazzler had a baby, she’s a mutant, does her own lightshow, comics used to be great, old people gene, really good things to read, the Claremont run, what the fuck’s with Morph, just a redshirt, Morph got fridged, Age of Apocalypse, better off with Richie Rich and Casper, he’s not just friendly, he’s not going to die, always the same, punished for being hungry, a grokkable psychology, Donald Duck, Uncle Scrooge, more like Tintin than anything else, undersold how popular Donald Duck, the writing, well written, Huey, Dewey, and Louie, menaces to Donald Duck, he’s not a great father, did they murder their parents?, the story of Inception before the movie, the exact same idea, such a great idea, working out the idea, a secret, straight out of A Scandal In Bohemia, everything’s in there, letters from the king of Bohemia, a rip off of the Purloined Letter by Poe, he did it perfectly, photocopying a plot, the New Twilight Zone, Jordan Peele, Not All Men, James Tiptree, Jr., meanwhile Harlan Ellison gets money and credits, Days Of Future Past, Doctor Who serial, I don’t like this Doctor guy, Christmas special, why are you so negative, watching Blade, half vampire, their age difference was negligible, 12 year between them, he looked like an adult, sad scary, not working out, Sir Patrick Stewart spends his time, Blunt Talk, a much better fit, he’s a no-nothing British guy, the Falkland Islands war, being a ditz, going to Starbucks, Star Trek feels, a reboot of one of the movies, actors having fun, alternate universe, no plan, making it up as they went along, not fun for the readers, how Kuttner wrote this book, actors having a ball, Star Wars sequels, have a plan, somehow Palpatine returns, gettin paid, J. Michael Straczynski, all non-union actors, him being the sole writer on it, as soon as he took control, one of the best science fiction shows, Babylon 5, Scarecrow And Mrs. King, skating, wreck the plot, that’s fine, pablum, the first three episodes, sparkles and no ideas, trust our sniffers, be like wolverine without the adamantium bones, didn’t fit into the bags anymore, deep Halloween trauma, the most special time of the year, go to people’s houses and threaten people, feel the power, American Halloween, witches and monsters, kids are talking about it, homemade costume, went to the mall, have to sing a Halloween song, Old MacDonald Had A Farm, custom jewelry, you have to say trick-or-treat, the Pledge of Allegiance, child logic, no song, Missy, store bought witch costume, definitely not Missy, every morning, Americans are weird, what the whole thing meant, got to hold the flag today, a good way to close our show, Wesley Snipes, artificial eye, stroke or something, wear sunglasses the whole time, pulled it off in Deadpool, guy wearing sunglasses, he’s cool, won Oscars, would’ve been fine, Demolition Man, the world than the action, a good science fiction scenario, the bad Judge Dredd movie, the sidekick was Rob Schneider in both, on a plane, Passenger 57, New Jack City, Gallowwalkers, using this technique, low or no critical reviews, Michael Crichton, Rising Sun, Westworld doesn’t have a book, Black Rain, Michael Douglas, Andy Garcia is fridged, yakuza and Toyotas, wet streets with lots of neon, little ones, Boiling Point, Mo’ Better Blues, the movies got smaller, in prison for a while, known as an action star, an episode of What We Do In The Shadows, tv miniseries, Netflix, Michael Jackson music video, good at dancing, Kevin Hart, could be good, something to download, writing about things that are stupid, working a lot harder than the writer who fucked it up, bad movies with high ratings, a short comedian, Eric Roberts, what happened was, small town low budget film, the star power, its actually pretty good, a small town seems to be a flame for the moths who are convicted criminals, murdered criminal, a Tales From The Crypt episode, a very specific formula, disposable character, based on the comic, super moralistic, people who are judging them, the violence in the comics, they want to have power, an easy get, 250+ ratings, 94%, 8.5 out of 10, Gone With The Wind, Lawrence Of Arabia, what the fuck is going on, local theater people, good muscle tone, half dressed packing a suitcase, I wrote this, my friends like the script, we can film here, who can we get, he’s in some good movies, famous as Julia Robert’s brother, mid-range movies, Runaway Train (1985), Akira Kurosawa, 700 credits, looking at his cue cards, Bruce Willis, tell him what his lines are, leave money to his family, they only have him fro three days, not the way Hollywood does it, an extraordinary, old people talk about old movies, 2005, time zone converter, another reason to hate daylight savings time, the regular time for Paycheck and The Weapon Shops of Isher.

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Posted by Jesse Willis

Reading, Short And Deep #483 – Whenever The Sun Shines by Margaret St. Clair

Reading, Short And Deep

Reading, Short And Deep #483

Eric S. Rabkin and Jesse Willis discuss Whenever The Sun Shines by Margaret St. Clair

Here’s a link to the story |PDF|.

Whenever The Sun Shines was first published in Fantastic Adventures, October 1947.

Posted by Scott D. Danielson Become a Patron!

The SFFaudio Podcast #835 – AUDIOBOOK/READALONG: The Aeneid by Virgil (Books IX – XII)

The SFFaudio Podcast #835 – The Aeneid by Virgil [Books IX – XII] read by George Allen (for LibriVox) and translated by John Dryden. This is the third third of the epic poem, books IX to XII(comprised of XII Books) running 4 hours 45 minutes, followed by a discussion of them. Participants in the discussion include Jesse and Scott Danielson

Talked about on today’s show:
9-12, some stuff, make more notes, wash over you, the books are not mentioned in the original, somebody’s imposition, one giant scroll, the title names, not consistent, a handy way of telling you which book it’s in, Act 1, Scene 1, here we go, more Shakespeare, a very old book, Shakespeare is old too, not a lot of Christianity in this book, the morality in this book, punishments in their version of Hell, Elysian fields for other people, that underworld stuff, work their way into heaven, doing the penance, so wicked, back in university, The Odyssey, more memorable and more personal, re-read, first read, the end, Dido stuff, superpowerful, the kind of morality you see in Shakespeare, Macbeth, a character named Old Seward, Mcduff, Ross, Scottish guys, in the context, Young Seward, did and said, these are Christian Scotsmen, witches and fate, on the border of our reality, kings and lords, this scene in relief, Act 5, Scene 7, enter Macbeth, what bloody man is that?, good writing, make a hero awesome, maybe bad writing, how Macbeth has just one the battle, how many dudes did he kill, his sword is steaming, just gone through a man or six, straight outta Robert E. Howard, a killing machine, not the wisest man, a great battler, tied me to a steak, bear-like I must fight the course, not born of woman, no man of woman born can hurt you, enter Young Seward, tho thou callest, hotter than any in hell, the devil himself, nor more fearful, abhorred tyrant, THEY FIGHT, thou wast born of woman, swords I smile at, stuff happens, winning the battle, he’s the bad guy, Scene 8, Old Seward, so great a day is cheaply bought, your son has paid a soldier’s debt, unshirking station, then he is dead?, your cause of sorrow, for then it hath no end, had he his hurts before?, did he suffer?, aye on the front, stabbed in the front not the back, as many sons as hairs, so his knell is knolled, gonna cry, found out his only son died, stabbed in the front, stabbed in the back, running away from the field, plucked untimely from his mother’s womb, fate plays a big role, the twisted words of the witches, the martialness, the warriness, 1500 years before, book XI, just war, people getting killed, Camilla’s Finest Hour, imagining in ten years what you’re going to remember, definitely Dido, the underworld, the most interesting things, lotsa battles, heroic war, not the very very end, with Aeneas killing Turnus, makes that decision, does he make a decision, no mercy please, let me have it, thinks about it for a second, considering mercy, sees the arms, his belt, let’s him have it, avenging Pallas, hilt deep in his enemy’s heart, a groan of outrage down to the shades below, we were set up for that, this paragraph, Turnus Attacks, War Rages On, The Trojans Advance, Turnuns Vs. Aeneas, Enemy At The Gates, Captains Fight And Die, Camilla’s Finest Hour, The Sword Decides All, poetic rather than functional, the ending sums up the last half of the book, prolonged fight against Turnus, local guy, teams, alliances, rivalries, prepped, John Dryden, last 2 stanzas, the lofty chief, recreant thus, I know my death deserved, think o think, thou has a father once and hast a son, or of thy vowed revenge, my body void of breath, thine the royal wife, kill me if you have to, think of your father think of your son, this is awesome, I deserve it all, care for a parent’s grief, stripped of life, victor and vanquished, go no further down the road of hatred, particularly good or evil, bad guy vs. opponents, he’s from that place, the interloper, the insurrectionist, the foreign invader, he’s from Asia, this guy’ from Europe, I have a fate, it’s my destiny, our destiny, you’re not just the lord of whatever, or soon will be, Duncan gives him too more lordships, gets into his head, Lady Macbeth all excited, I would make a great king, read the witches properly what will happen, not what should happen, histories, tragedies, comedy, a comedy ends with marriages, everybody marriages, Julius Caesar, Twelfth Night, A Midsummer’s Night’s Dream, the gods are fighting, Juno, Jupiter’s like whatever lady, the fate, set at Rome’s founding, two fates going on, the history, the destiny pushed on Aeneas and his people by the gods, a weirder character, Macbeth is evil, murder people, including children, local people, we don’t like those people, allied, this girl they’re rivaling over, in parallel with parts of The Iliad, chases Turnus around ten times, Achilles, we really ought to be reading The Iliad first, sulking in their tent, more compressed, in the shadow of that, chasing happens, they’re connecting it to their origins, secretly we’re Trojans, reverse the history, we can’t be the defeated people, an Empire now, losers who had to run away, second to last stanza, our dude, you won the battle, pity the family of those who die, you know what it is like to lose people, give my dead body back to my family, despoil the body is worse, not let him be burnt properly, in the second to last stanza, the Trojan seemed to stand, rolled his eyes, his manly soul with more compassion melt, oh oh oh, these words have struck me, a casual glance, the fatal spoils that haghty Turunus, the anime version of this, traitor!, clad as thou art, Patroclus wears the armour of Achilles, the desecration of a body, fuckbuddy cousin, a graceful offering, at the word, deep in his bosom, disstained his arms around, the disdainful soul came rushing through the wound, walking out of the movie theater, mercy, the girl is yours, can’t we live in peace, it would be nice to be… the camera zooms in on the belt, drives the blade between the shoulder blade and his neck, stabbing the heart, a killing blow, not fade to black, straight cut to black, how would you feel, we’ve seen that, SEVEN (1995), not a good feeling, goad him into it, couldn’t hold himself back, a student watched Seven recently, never want to see it again, what’s coming, it’s horrible, manipulative, Brad Pitt, what’s in the box stuff, what does that make of Brad Pitt’s character, movie logic, a Seven 2, you’re not Aeneas, the streaming blood disdainful, dis-stain, contempt, the arms are the weapons, the battle dress, claiming to be mad about, a local king’s prince, the disdainful soul, that’s amazing, we’re supposed to think, a traitor in some way, Turnus is a hothead manipulated by the gods, you won, let this war be over, you’re gone, I kill you, let my hate win, the reason Macbeth is bad, murdered children in their beds, plagued by visions, the famous dagger scene, Is this a dagger I see before me?, allow the possibility that it is a cross, an invisible dagger, remind you of this killing, or Jesus, repent, a Christian layer to that, not just a random dude, the founder of Rome, an original sin for the culture of Rome, making slaves of people, slavery is preferable to genocide, especially the men, probably pretty bad, they’re valuable, you sell them, you can’t be manumitted by death, the bond put upon you by being the end of a losing people, a national epic, an Imperial Epic, this can’t be the way it ends, choosing to end it here is the surprising thing, the shock and horror of it is huge, the hotheadedness, nothing to do with destiny, personal action, foment a secret rebellion, he’s the rival mirror to Aeneas, really great, flaring up in fury, decked in the spoils, escaped my clutches, never, not as visceral, awesome, make you pay the price, blazing with wrath, hilt deep in his enemy’s heart, lifebreath fled with a groan of outrage, the disdainful soul, the Romans think this is completely justified, Arthurian rules, realistic, not justified, a modern hero did that, 24, Keifer Sutherland, running around, no bathroom break, no snack, torture works, he’s just going to torture a guy, are you seriously going there?, we don’t torture people, there’s no white hat here, they’re the bad ones, they’re the ones who hide behind women and children, our team vs. their team, the reason we’re good is we do good things, good guy bad guy is just gone, the Romans don’t have good guy/bad guy, they have pious, dutiful to their fathers, dutiful to the gods, humans killed, a spectacle, a lot of pathos comes out of the deaths of these humans, major takeaways, this death, just beautiful when Camilla dies, protected by Diana, the huntress, goddess of the moon, Book XI, she lost her grip on the reigns, slipped down to the ground, neck drooped limp, a groan of outrage down to the shades below, 8 stanzas from the end, tugs at the spear, stands fixed in the deep wound, fighting like a superhero, the wingshaft predestined to the deed, the yew, the far distant horns on either side, the fatal arrow flew, zing!, sounding dart, felt the point with his heart, the conquering damsel, amazed by the language, high vocab, their leader lost, more on their speed than on their strength rely, take their wounds behind, he doesn’t care that his son is dead, only that he was brave, the slackened bow, the rotten ground, the rampires, the trembling matrons, rend heaven with female shrieks, a mingled multitude, then in a fright, the vanquished cry, tis terror all within, slaughter all without, the Latian virgins valiant with despair, poles sharpened, drew her bow with a vengeance, down or up, Cynthia’s maid, she wrenched the javelin with her dying hands, the steely point remains, agonizing pains, the Romans love gore, broken glass, Die Hard (1988), steps on the broken glass, one “fucker” per movie, pg-13, the bad guy who is bad, deceitful, not a gore movie, no nudity almost, fake swearing, stylized, no gore, the Romans loved gore, Ben-Hurchariot scene, guy gets run over a few times, the gore is a feature, she staggers in her seat with agonizing pains, up to her face, a gathering mist o’erclouds, he swims before my sight, fly with speed, my charge succeed, the town relieve, another breath/soul things, sliding sunk upon the plain, her open hand forsakes the rein, she pants, the lingering dude, I’m still alive, I’m quite burnt, 17 bad guys he shoots, this is the opposite, short and more short she pants, Miles Dyson in Terminator 2, lets go of the explosive, she’s panting in her death, the mind her passage from her body flees, plumey crest, her struggling, to Stygian sound retires, awesome, they fight, Donalbain is slain, the level of camerawork here is hardcore, hardcore gore, increases the tragedy, increases the pathos, women described as beautiful, beauteous, that’s even worse, Book X, plucked it out, advancing on the margin, the clowns, an omen of the fight, he first in open field defied the prince, opened wide, Lichass, from his naked mother, sacred to Pheobus, from biting steel freed, pulled out of his mother with pincers, not far from his was Gyas, with monstrous bulk, no valour nor herculean arms availed, toiled, writhed his dart, received his doom, beardless bloom, cur’d his love of boys, seven bold, his mother’s care, turned aside, spears being chucked, Cydon, courted Clytius, a pedophile, obscene lust, the united force, a random little thing, not how the Greeks are doing it, Achilles the great hero has a boyfriend who’s his cousin, the Romans: pedophiles should be killed, random list of guys getting shot, you can miss so much, moral progress, you could make the case, human sacrifice is bad, animal sacrifice is less bad, giving up meat for lent, gambling or smoking, no animals were hurt, you can make the case, regressions, we don’t do torture, enhanced interrogation, the Philippine war, in the text there, Nietzsche, slave morality vs. master morality, turn the other cheek, the reason that the Romans are ripe for takeover by Christians, a lot of slaves, mad at moneylenders, the Prince of Peace, take control of the Roman Empire, instead of having their piety be how many sacrifices, their obedience to the moral code of Jesus, not a slur against Christianity, popular among the slaves, they know what suffering is, the power of the story of Jesus, a lot of attention, the force argument, we have better weapons, better organized, the right, just a fact, why this book is so weird compared to Shakespeare, strongly obvious, Odysseus’ goodness comes from being tricky, knows how to get stuff done, journey home, dudes courting his wife, killing spree, he’s good at it, not very Christian, very good, do The Iliad some day, Beowulf, Sir Gawain, the Saga of the Volsungs, all the dwarfs that are in the Hobbit, Fafnir, Smaug, a talking dragon there is, digging a lot of this older stuff, Ballantine Adult Fantasy books, The King Of Elfland’s Daughter, The Charwoman’s Daughter, The Broken Sword by Poul Anderson, The Blue Star by Fletcher Pratt, The Sundering Flood, The Tritonian Ring by L. Sprague De Camp, most of them are old, The Wood Beyond The World, it’s got a map!, mountains, rivers, a sea eventually, Paul would not like the geography on this, Lilith by George MacDonald, a port city, put in a request, 10 hours, what’s Lilith about?, considered among the darkest, most profound, a cosmic sleep that heals tortured souls, a Christian universalist, sold, a lot of good George MacDonald, new to him, Reading, Short And Deep, The Green Door?, Odd John, Christmas break, 2008, waiting for us for all these years, duties at church, eucharistic minister, wine for the kids, assume that it is red wine, less magical, less substantial, less transubstantial, going through some Simak, Project Pope, shocked at how good it was, idea idea idea, selling me, let’s book it, the Pope part of it, gonna become infallible, feed me nothing but facts, Special Deliverance, A Choice Of Gods, fund with doubles, two short stories, Cordwainer Smith, Leigh Brackett, A Game Of Rat And Dragon, Dragon Queen Of Jupiter, Frank Herbert and Tolkien vs. Asimov and Clarke science fiction, rettitled Dragon Queen Of Venus, find and replace, this is just a French Foreign Legion story set on Jupiter, why is this terrible, why does this work?, a young lady who likes dressing up vs. a CIA agent who wrote Psychological Warfare and loved cats, a fun talk, easier, Dick and A.E. Van Vogt, men’s magazine stories, didn’t love Gods Of Mars, not a series guy, editing today, The Idiot, a short story about a robot, left it off the schedule, Partner’s Payoff, WWII veteran, get robbed, coffee, more editing.

Posted by Jesse Willis

The SFFaudio Podcast #834 – AUDIOBOOK/READALONG: The Gods Of Mars by Edgar Rice Burroughs

The SFFaudio Podcast #830 – The Gods Of Mars by Edgar Rice Burroughs, read by Mark Nelson for (LibriVox). This is a complete and unabridged audiobook (8 hours 33 minutes), followed by a discussion of it. Participants in the discussion include Jesse, Will Emmons, and Alex (Pulpcovers)

Talked about on today’s show:
serialized in All-Story, January-May 1913, the first book, 1912, ten years have gone by, A Princess Of Mars, the atmosphere processor, Cohagen, kicked back to earth, told to his nephew Edgar Rice Burroughs, strange mausoleum, dead on the bluff, coffin, strict instructions, shrug, I was back on Mars!, ends on a cliffhanger, two manuscripts with him, no more gettin stuck places, know how much you love my writin, couldn’t bare to leave my wife, kidnapped again, ignore the fact there are 8 more backs after this?, what happened to Woola, Woola stayed home, alive enough to make it to the air factory, goes with Dejah to the white apes, first book guy, a dog of mars, The Dogs Of Mars, Jack London’s becoming a wild white ape dog, lizard dog thing, tusks, don’t read series, some interesting stuff in here, the black man pirate, gives the mythology or biology of the creation of the peoples of mars, very Edgar Rice Burroughs, crazy crazy stuff, as a mythology, world tree, Babylonian, very cool, favourite John Carter story, shaved a couple of the rough corners off, coincidence level, utterly shameless, and there he was on a whole planet, any direction will take you north, drift for two days, random direction, a smaller planet than earth, the Little Prince, if he runs really quick and jumps he can see the top of his own head, the nested fake religion conspiracy thing, real heaven over there, Gulliver Of Mars, mental hospital, Edwin Lester Arnold, [The Wonderful Adventures Of] Phra The Phoenician, it’s funny, sillier, not as heroic, more ridiculous, library action, weird gender stuff, polar area, glaciers, deposit their stuff in glacial lakes, collecting all their jewelry, heaven is fake, very similar to what we have here, eaten by plant men, limited ecosystem, very few vegetables, drink plant milk eat vegan cheese, one of the lower races, totally soy, Thark nutrition, saved in the desert by finding this milkweed, dead world, dying world, been dying for a million years, an old world, ecology is all used up, seas dried up, it’s fun, very silly, go with it, ten years?, I’m back!, meets his best bud, here’s my son, how martian years are different, is his son 5 years old?, hatches, a white egg, monotrim?, monotreme wife, hatch ready to fight, egg grows over time, nutrient packed, advanced martian biology, must take a lot out of a woman, Carthoris, jumped the shark, a few other things, gets pirates wrong again, fake pirates, the black pirates that live on the moon, super-advanced, extinct volcano, c they don’t eat themselves, yellow people, cross breed, black, white and yellow martians, Borderlands, movie that nobody likes, too long, didn’t need going back to Helium, chopping down 50 plant men, put in prison for a year, tunnels of Mars, just enough time to build a whole bunch of battleships, 1000 ships, little boats, Tars Tarkas says: I got my dudes, not just airships, also submarines, retrofitted, never seen water, they had a guy, the radium revolvers, the bullets are all handmade by Thark maidens, Afghanistan/Pakistan, ancient weapons, but radium?, the new hotness, not explosive, poisoned to death, radium explained, martian hieroglyphic means radium, explosive on mars, no helium involved, all transliterated, by our co-author, all mistakes, astrocharts, not going to bore you with that, late huge footnote, don’t want to throw the story off, the number of days, the Martian day, the Martian year, pulled it up in the encyclopedia, that footnote, this was the popular media at the time, people were a lot smarter back then, weird ideas, racism, eugenics, getting dumber, getting less literate, other media, without having to pre-learn, computer or video games, most consumable media, rizz skibidi toilet happening, long hand with a quill, the good stuff, more work, average text, at the time of the American revolution, high gothic English, written by people trained on high classics, more accessible, produce easier text, not complete rot, but pretty rotten, becomes verbal, Joss Whedon dialogue, books written in the last 10 years, raised on Buffy The Vampire Slayer, to make somebody cool, raised on sitcoms, I heard this about this book, The Kaiju Preservation Society by John Scalzi, that just happened, Godzilla Minus One (2023), John Scalzi writing a teenage girl, probably got a couple of teenage daughters, swore off of David Brin, guy looking at a computer screen describing a battle in another solar system, uplift stuff, read Lester Del Rey’s story [The Faithful], treading water, Will’s essay about the other book, weird American morality, something going on, summarize, hot take, Thark green man culture, breeds haphazardly, like snakes having sex, the chieftan directs who mates with whom, the greatest warrior ever accidently falls in love, queer in context, quote tweeting, being heteronormative is queer, raise your own kids in an atomic family (very queer), on purpose?, horrible place, break with tradition, adaptations, Del Comics adaptation of this book, completely dressed from head to toe, frogman with gloves on, wearing pants, it doesn’t make sense to dress them unless, it was the fifties, nudity, Dynamite Deja Thoris, naked Deja Thoris on every cover, mostly naked, not very memorable, the art’s nice, Edgar Rice Burroughs tic, preHeinlein Heinlein Tarzan and Barsoom, nudism, bodily transported to mars with his clothes on, the excuse, astral projection, real body on the other end, ghost planet, a transporter, his old body is also left behind, prudism, issues with that movie, not completely nude, not a settler colonialist, gone native, bringing his own, you and I can be friends, Woola can be my dog like an earth dog, normalizing certain aspects of American and earth culture, don’t believe in this bad religion, a reformer, he doesn’t bring his Christianity with him, the gods eating, reverse communion, blasphemous, Abraham and Isaac, give me you son I’m hungry, blog post, that’s against your culture, change the culture in a positive way, is Burroughs doing that on purpose?, bring them back to the good way, cave castle, raises his own baby, they’re almost communists, they’re the kind of communism, anything I don’t like is communism, you won’t raise your own child, a hobby horse against communism, The Moon Maid, Tarzan The Invincible, I’m here for you, swearing your lives, I’ll be your slave, the slaves were thrilled, I get stand behind your missing wife’s seat, Thuvia Maid Of Mars, that’s not weird, I’m in love with your dad, childhood fascination?, 600 year old, time works strangely on Mars, always looking thirty, never explained, put a lot of stuff into this first book, telepathy, that one time, immortal, it did the opposite, the most boring part of the book to read, interesting, so deep into the book, five miles away, a full mile, as close packed, very orderly, neither scoffs nor plaudits, tried by an impartial body of nobles, footnote 1, 840am earth time, whenever Captain Carter…, many martian tables, this vast fund, it will add nothing of interest, adhere to the original manuscript, the martian day is a trifle over, ten equal parts, revolutionary French, Jacobins, commencing the day at 6am Earth time, 200 brief periods of time, seconds?, yep, fifty zats one zoad, fifty zats in a zoad, 200 tals in a zat, a key to understanding how he wrote this, suddenly realized, the only footnote in the whole book, this is not Tolkien, writing as fast as he can, oh hang on, what did I do, he’s on a typewriter!, when you can just do it this way, that’s a lot of work, Will’s Foundation readthrough essay, Paul Krugman, something about being evil, portrays a profound disrespect for people, wanted to be a psychohistorian, when Asimov was writing that story, one day a New York Times columnists is going to be inspired by my writing, in the context of Will’s essay, it’s liches, liches are evil because they try to control the living even they’re dead, 10 jews per semester and no blacks of you want my money, find a workaround, the stupid codicils in the will, strange and ridiculous, I can write better rot than that, more coherent, would we have been way better off?, we wouldn’t get a lot of the text, how many books did Tolkien published, two novels, not meant for publication, a lot less stuff, meant to be ephemeral, wipe your butt with the pages, goes in the digested, before writing, Under The Moons Of Mars, letterhead for a failed business, Heinlein’s story too, so many of these old authors, spent 2 years in the merchant marines, invented a new kind of helicopter, wrote these 12 crime novels, don’t tell the truth, somebody’s, dress it up in frilly clothes, plant men at their email jobs, laptop class plant men, unconsciously, how he would like to interact with reality, wants to have a good friend, a son (but wouldn’t like to raise them), come on to him, oblivious to it, I will have all your eggs, I’m married to a literal princess, weird food for the black pirates, Sola and his relationship, these creatures from Mars, in various forms of dress and undress, thought it was hot, 4 boobs, thark muscle mommy, orc muscle mommy, let them be, she was teaching him, low position, all coincidences, special, coincidentally special, killing plant men for the first ten minutes and white apes, white ape action, too long, too much, the manipulation of the stuff, surgery in the next book?, growin guys in vats, yellow martians, trying to find Dejah Thoris, had an egg somewhere, why she named him, I didn’t know you were pregnant, stand and watch the egg together, watch it grow, probably done with this series, a lot of filler, have to be in the dungeon for a year, another year, very manipulative, on a sentence and scene level, the airship battle at the end, that got Will, visualizing it, in the 1970s for playing rpgs, matter replicator, play with miniatures, big airship battle, actual tactics, maneuver like this, an anchor, Sola fell off, a nice soft mountain, because coincidence, very hardy 12 feet tall, boobs and ass, the Burroughs bibliophiles, an important science fiction writer, space opera after him, planetary romance, in the atmosphere, five hard science fiction books you have to read, The Calculating Stars by Mary Robinette Kowal, rockets, handwavium, a rocket program, Rocket Ship Galileo, if this goes on jum jum jum […], here’s a set of ideas, let’s play, Howard writing a Kull story, just is happening, the part of the brain that’s stimulated, sense of wonder, so many stars, the end of the Clarke story, The Nine Billion Names Of God, if these monks are right, an Isaac Asimov story, the same idea, if you could calculate, good writing, character stuff, way too long, worldbuilding, people disagree, fantasy story with science fiction tropes, telepathy was a science fiction trope, discovering things, turns out no, very popular bad idea, Alfred Bester, this is not doing that, kill people with my sword, let’s go, fun vibe, keeps you reading, changing Mars to be more compatible with Edgar Rice Burroughs morality, likes his titles, The Cave Girl, duchess, what if we flip this around, a martian comes to Earth, a thark or redman or white ape comes to earth, meets a waitress, side of a highway in Iowa, insists that she’s a princess, maybe she has a kid, you de-princessize her, a low woman who needs to pay the bills, lives in a trailer, the morality of mars to earth, traditional thark thoughts, one of many woman, go plant your egg in that field over there, falling apart instantly, what if we switch genders, switch classes, what we see in relief, Heinlein’s novel, Stranger In A Strange Land, Superman, the best culture: Kansas culture, weirdness magnet, hidden hand controlling his destiny, blue kryptonite, a kabbalistic connection to the letters LL, not a comedy, cute, cosy, action packed, noble, this story, the culture is even more alien, playful, more Mary Suey, making it so the reader can, I’m not John Carter, reuniting with my family, being locked in dungeons for years, supersane, chained to the wall, his muscles are fine, isometric exercises, no food, have to eat each other, Issus, so fluffy and frothy, barely in the book, in more scenes than many, clearly his story, the protagonist, unneeded, the mythology was really good, does he go on to impose or prop up, the books get weirder and weirder, Thurn high priest, the temple of the Sun, not a finished book, ridiculous cliffhanger, son has adventures, Thuvia Maid Of Mars, their daughter has a book, mad scientists, a fighting man of mars, weird adventuer, spider heads, he’s fun, create a new America, I’m a great guy, emancipating the slaves, an old Virginian, Burroughs or John Carter, he wants to be a noble of some kind, read the hold canon, the impression, not unusually racist, he’s nice to his slaves, no black men in the first book, the next book, they’re all bald, wear the wig with the crown, used to be blonde, they dress up for each other, oh my god, so cool, with regard to the slaves, gladiatorial stuff, people who speak for them, so bored she didn’t even open her eyes, didn’t have to bother looking, half way through the book?, slave uprising in the arena, this is actual science fiction right here, teaching students how to use chat gpt properly, given assignments that are ridiculous, whatever it writes, this is too much, reform it and refine it, can you do my homework for me, the blacks don’t produce anything, really interesting, she wasn’t even watching the combat, there are some even who have slaves who talk to them, transpiring within the arena, the firstborn do no work, the men fight, the women do nothing, absolutely nothing, with closed eyes, not tech, replace the word slave with robot, magically science fiction, robots wash them, robots feed them, with closed eyes, we see this with kings, learn to read, there are slaves for that, you have to read the actual message from your kid, to see that signature, trust with your own eyes, think about this a lot, a little dose of mainstream media, pre-digest your thoughts, she’s the biggest person on substack, Barry Weiss on Joe Rogan, he is an “Assad toady”, she didn’t know what the word meant, what predigested news does for you, wash your own laundry, when I want your opinion I’ll give it to you, fix my car, takes a lot of training, if you haven’t done it, all these topics, some jobs require some skills to be learned, essay writing, good jobs, fucked if I know, work in tech, written a lot, wrote a ton of essays, a real skill that helps you in a lot of places, put your thought coherently together, the tricks to get the results that they want, do you want this to be interesting and good for you, or good for your teacher, more flourishing, the short term, you need five paragraphs and this number of words, students don’t even know what the word essay means, A Modest Proposal, pushing away the joke, doubles down and doubles down, I propose we start eating the babies, coherent sentences, hitting word counts, way more to say or way less to say, how to say five different ways to say “in addition”, checkpoints they have to go through, how Will ended up writing essays, learned to like it, writing is fun, writing ideas, worked with Will a lot, how to communicate clearly, you’re lucky, a coherent person, columnist for the New York Times, any kinda good, communicate clearly in writing, building fences and fixing cars, more shop class, languages, a lot of that is weird liability stuff, bandsaw, can’t let them do it, fear is hugely driving things in society, more bad writing as chat gpt takes over, unfeasible to fund it, complete in five years, those jobs to make that shit, what a robot thinks about something, what’s the capital of Katmandu?, some of the questions make no sense, are those popular questions that were asked, they do nothing, no moral agenda behind it, so strange, how rich and decadent they are, if Robert E. Howard were writing this, The Slithering Shadow, decadent city state, ivs of opium all day, wtf you guys doin?, I’m busy fighting this slither shadow, that’s just how it is, I got my opium, much more of the science fiction writer, set on another planet, strong ideas he’s trying to work through, almost essay style arguments, when we eventually get to Rogues In The House, Murders In The Rue Morgue?, C. August Dupin, The God In The Bowl, Burroughs is deep too, levels to it, he hasn’t teased them out, he’s just shooting them, this is Robert E. Howard doing a gothic and having Conan hating every minute of it, a hobby horse against gothic fiction, frustrated the whole time, even Frost Giant’s Daughter, the siren, the tease, steaming on a platter, fuck that, I’m Conan, you can’t escape me, almost a rape story, why can’t we read this in school, a long list of things they want to put in your brain and this is not it, Burroughs taught in school, maybe shop class, fence making class, chicken breeding, anti-classical education, an elective on posting, a classical education in high school, doing it on our this podcast, The Symposium, three years of classical philosophy, very powerful, participate in a lot of weird conversations, make cocktails, vintage art guy, extracted what little juice was in this dry planet, at some point, all the insane coincidence, there’s the exact thing I needed, half-way across the solar system, exact same prison cell as my son, so brazen about it you can’t get man, the most deus thing that ever got machinaed, one big coincidence, two people survived, this is bad writing, my god how amazing is this, every piece fits together, The Terminator, more fun, not as good as a film, the more you elaborate on it, every piece fits, why is this happening, that word was created by him hearing it from himself, that’s just how it is, no clothes, no clothes, handwavium, I don’t understand tech stuff, every part of that story fits, an embellisment, the exact same beats, how the pacing is identical scene for scene, one is here to protect, I’ll be back, not a horror movie and not a b-movie, a car chase, a truck chase, crushed in the crushing factor, melted in a melting factory, 2200 word story, something not set in our conventional world, he’s not crafting a story, trying to tell you a fun story, going on adventures, so many other modes, mystery series, the mystery, Nancy Drew and the Hardy Boys, sandwich making and a lot of clues, The Hound Of The Baskervilles is a terrific terrific novel, a Nancy Drew style story, yard sales, 10 cents a book, art inside, cool covers, boys solving mysteries, one boy, the Encyclopedia Brown books, a knock off for even younger kids, who stole the bike, I’ve solved the mystery, got some trivia wrong, civil war saber, General Robert E. Lee, first Battle of Bull Run, The Battle Of First Manassas, Futurama, Wikipedia Brown, mode of mystery, H. Beam Piper novel Murder In The Gunroom, an Encyclopedia Brown story, the key to the mystery, weird menace show, Robert Silverberg and Test-Tube Frankenstein by Wayne Robbins, gonna be on it, so fuckin good, a Philip K. Dick horror story with Lovecraftian monsters, I have a story to tell you, rogue scientist, grinding up earthworms and making them into something, the guy he’s talking to is the earthworm, no mermaids in this story, Mistress Of The Dark Pool, find of the last five years, get the word out, very fast, listen to most of the story, so compelling, not the perfect way of doing it, slightly improved by framing device, tack on on he ending, the best excuse ever for taking a lady’s shirt off, can’t see anything they don’t get to see, replicate the outside, W. Wayne Robbins, goodness ahead, pretty much done, classic bookshelf, The Tower Treasure, later development, whole bunch of Tom Swifts for sale, The Asteroid Pirates, Victor Appleton, Victor Appleton II, The Shore Road Mystery, The Missing Chums, The House On The Cliff, LibriVox, why aren’t we bookin that guys?, four hours five minutes, one of the boys is thumbing his thumb, check out that thing, get a load of this guy, lady running down the hill away from the tower, criminals to justice, emdash, aiding their parent very materially, his loot had been secreted, The Three Investigators, Alfred Hitchcock as a character, estate locked down, 1964-1987, rewritten, complain about them, this minefield, shelf of Nancy Drews, 50s rewrite, edited them to death, a big account, people see it, the impossible to find first editions, the original, couldn’t be re-copyrighted, Franklin W. Dixon, rewritten, two Nancy Drews, every page was different, every sentence was changed, read it to your kid, people complain because it is different, changing the dates in Do Androids Dream Of Electric Sheep?, not an author, Carolyn Keene, ghost written, improvements that way, we’ll find out, November 24th, December 1?, that predictable, make some coffee, do some editing, 1:20, too late in the day, went to bed at 9pm, just go with it, up til like 3am, sleep-in, a good little podcast, pick your brain, current SF stories, this is nice violence, making fun of AOC, HMU, hit me up, there’s that too, science fiction is short stories not novels (generally), Hominids by Robert J. Sawyer, a series, funny silly agendas, an excuse, Planet Of The Apes, neanderthal comes forward in time, falls in love, gay cavemen need to reproduce, he doesn’t know how to write humans, a lot of representation, my friend the security guard is an Indian from India, he wears a turban, they’re not like the way you project them to be, standalone books, blew me socks off, Golden Fleece, a starship, murder mystery, narrated by the computer, last few years, kinda dumb in the way many pretty smart people are, gonna live forever, Ray Kurzweil: not a smart man, not even on a cope, it’s a hope, I’m gonna live forever is not a cope it is denial, secular version of heaven, a paperback, Quintaglio Ascension trilogy, tiny dinosaurs on a moon of another planet, an analog for a scientist, Far-Seer, he’s Galileo, no humans in this book, really into dinosaurs, child-like, neanderthal fetish, when did the neanderthal touch you in a loving way?, sharing the earth with other minds, literary fiction novel, Claire Cameron, The Last Neanderthal, woman archaeologist, make the book longer garbage, just like fire, [incest], her neanderthal beliefs, big words, make your vocal chords tired, The Ugly Little Boy by Isaac Asimov, probably like Hominids, planned as a trilogy, Shaman by Kim Stanley Robinson, Iceman (1984), Encino Man (1992), put him in a dome, cave-man Truman Show, unfrozen cave man movie, a nice length, John Lone, 10,000 BC (2008), Alpha the first dog, cave boy separated from his people, read an actual book, how you gonna find it, hear it from somebody you don’t have contempt for, need to know more, paleoanthropologists are hard to meet, get no work?, set on earth, Clan Of The Cave Bear (1986), wistful longing, Shogun, hand can’t span the spine, very doable, the original Pierre Boulle Planet Of The Apes, an inversion of what you see in the movie, and short, 1963, more recent reboots, current series, 246 pages in English, an abbreviated version, Science Fiction Encyclopedia, laptop, probably burdened down by the horrible operating system, Tiny 11, MacOS, the garbage never installed, people are fixing things, we can fix it, finding out about that, how many years, you would never find it, searching for weird shit, you’ve heard of Linux, who runs Linux?, whaevah, The Aeneid, The Odyssey is one of the best books anybody can read, programmatic and propagandistic, the end with the genocide, everyone should read old books, what’s the oldest book you’ve ever read?, the early parts of the bible, contemporaneous, 8th century BC, Gilgamesh, always finding new parts, James Gunn’s From Gilgamesh To Wells, Bryan Alexander is in Mexico City doing his Mexican futurism, trying Out Of The Silent Planet again, riffing hard on Voyage Top Arcturus, he calls out wells several times, Stapledon looms over it, 1938, The Lion The Witch And The Wardrobe, age of Book of Genesis, 1400 bc, Moses, a redacted literary work, 400 bc, has great parts, boring parts, read The Odyssey in high school, a tv program of it, a great character, fun adventures, every island, go to university for 20 years, stop taking history, literature and science classes, math, a weird physics class, know about physics, the physics texts written by the physics dudes, readable, post-Einsteinian physics, what does physics need to know about me?, material science, how can we solve this problem, some it is just cost, hard to dig up and process, aluminum used to be the most expensive metal, more valuable than gold, now as cheap as dirt made from dirt, titanium, the price of titanium, mixing metals together, lots of great physics stuff to learn, doesn’t really matter what class it is as long as the teacher is good, the quality of the physics teachers in Michio Kaku, the science popularizes, worse than dumb rocks, not caring about facts, string theory is bullshit, nobody would say that for 30 fucking years, buzzword, there are things we don’t know why things happen, come up with a theory, come up with a hypothesis, if that’s true then…, is gravity a particle, gravitons, if we can detect a graviton, a particle and not a wave, we don’t know the answers, everything else is happening in other dimensions, the don’t fuckin test it, a collider the size of the solar system, nobody calls em on it, subscribing to Scientific American and Popular Science, some of this is scams, flying cars are here, they’re not in your backyard, this other kind of flying car, four engines where the wheels would be, re-on the cover of Popular Science, never ever fuckin happened, you need electric engines like drones and lithium batteries to make a flying car a viable thing, these are fly by wire, sensors, limiters, in the fifties they had flying jeeps, Neil Armstrong, helicopter blades beneath him, put soldiers on those to fly into battle, bird strike, blade of grass anything will kill you, a cool looking mockup, most of the people in physics, mock up of flying cars, keep paying me, that’s something else, a religious scam, the guy at the front: you’re all going to heaven you don’t need to read the paperwork, string theory, it’s coming along, a scam, in production right now, they’re basically drones, but you sit in the drone, there’s no market for them, fly in the sky over your suburb, operating drones, traffic rules for the sky, how crotchety and elderly the system of laws is, probably be Africa, where they’re interested in getting shit done and not feathering their own nests, more like golf carts, more like RVs or ATVs, used in the countrysides for farmers, check fence-lines, flying car guy knew what the problem was, using conventional engines, light enough batteries, gasoline is super energy dense, diesel, bunker fuel, kerosene is less, you can put them all over the spars, filled with batteries, just a few more years, not noticing they’ve run the same fucking article for 25 years, find a way to test this, the quantum theory is the result of Einstein’s stuff, the many worlds hypothesis, at the fundamental nature of reality, vibrating fibers, outer space as being the absence of something, coming into creation, bubbles of particles, brief existences, Wikipedia string theory, a theoretical framework, 1 dimension objects, when we scroll down, looking for the where’s your tests, brane theory, m-theory, supergravity, matrix theory, Stephen Hawking, another failed guy, entropy formula, counting microstates, an important test of any theory of quantum gravity, doing math not physics, phenomenology, no experimental evidence, pretty damning sentence, some in the community, question the value, what heaven will be like, in my father’s house there are many mansions, how many bathrooms are in those mansions, does it come with bidets?, just give em some more money, extremely high energies need, they proliferate, mansions have more than one bathroom, that’s what they’re doing, looking at the facts then doing bullshit, not science at that point, thought experiments, the table has a glass on it, the glass has water in it, the water is wobbling, everybody is playing this game of what’s making the water move, that’s a story, where’s the evidence for it?, Mr Bad, formula on a t-shirt, e=mcsquared has damaged a lot of brains, their castles in the air are bullshit, you can do all of this, you can see how it was constructed, hidden stories behind the construction of the stories, what it was, there are facts of the matter, way easier game to play, get some cool ideas out of it sometimes, cuz they don’t have any other ideas and it is funded, somebody enjoys funding theoretical physics, interested in science, the excuse for why they can get a caveman to modern times, a hollow chamber full of heavy water, neutrino detector, the neanderthal in question is also a physicist, Illegal Alien, Royal Ontario Museum, can we prove that god exists, a paleontologist, first human to alien contact, a spiderlike alien arrives, large collection of fossils, gather evidence for the existence of god, the same five cataclysmic events, an atheist, not what you want to read right now, so what do you think?, it’s a mystery, keep it a mystery, spoil is thoughts, smart but not smart like me, not wise, smart = wisest, how do you measure wisdom, Jesse particles, emitting them, to measure personal wisdom, concerning difficult behaviors, what is the San Diego wisdom scale, high validity, make predictions very easily, renowned and acclaimed, they think it makes them sound better, a passover word, my critically acclaimed debut novel, the New York Times says, an ok person, an accident, how they used to have Theodore Sturgeon, evil NIH website, healthy aging, abstract, not complete?, the answer to this is no, mechanical turk, as we grow older, do not rush, 28 questions, I’m good at perceiving how others are feeling, I have trouble making decisions, make snap decisions, a harder one for Jesse, others look to me, go out more, don’t talk to the raccoons talk to the neighbours, a wise quality, a neutral response, always wants help, 2-seater car, can’t help her move, bad boundaries, conflict, I have trouble thinking clearly when I am upset, don’t be upset, when was the last time you were upset?, is angry upset?, a couple of years ago, there is no existence of the soul after death, why would their be?, nebulous, soul is a synonym for spirit, still exists rather than lives on, all word games, others say I give good advice, wearing the uniform, therapists shouldn’t give advice, life coach, windows or apple, probably windows unfortunately, unable to do either, try not to make decisions, I remain calm under pressure, I have trouble thinking when I am upset, don’t be under pressure, when lifting weights, I enjoy learning things about other cultures, when they have this many questions, getting at it, asking the same thing different ways, I’m closed minded, I can’t learn, I tend to postpone making major decisions as long as I can, a wisdom in not making decisions, not making decisions about things you can’t control, I’m painting the walls blue, worry is a much bigger thing than it should be, I take time to reflect on my thoughts, you write, a little notebook, a few sentences, I would stop a stranger, morality or wisdom, an American dollar at the current inflation rate, my spiritual belief gives me inner strength, duty and how people should act, a spiritual thing, neutral on it, just havin fun here, I’m ok with people having morals and values other than my own, you’re a mammal, like your young, take more information on non-mammalian morality, lost it for about six weeks, spent more money, can’t even make the joke, I avoid self-reflection, about mirrors?, I would rather someone else make the decision, for me I am uncertain, a mistaken trait, waitress, what do you like, what was popular, people are different, such a strange question to ask a waitress, interesting experience, deferring to someone else on your decision making, is this a steak restaurant, I treat others the way I would like to be treated, not as an asshole, not as a piece of shit, please pass the podcasting juice, neutral, uncertain, it is important that I understand the reasons for my actions, finding out why you’re doing things, realize you’re making mistakes, the reason I’m doing this, I’ve always done it this way, a better or more efficient way, all connected on a higher level, a lower level, sniffing, they probably do, perfume, axe body sprays, horrible perfumes, can’t grok them, I generally learn something from every person I meet, drive through at the restaurant, an interaction vs. a meeting, generally learn something, the circumstances under which they’ve been pushed, condo doesn’t let them in, exposed to diverse viewpoints, meaning drift, diversity, equity, inclusion, exclusion, hierarchy, monoculture, the quality of being fair and impartial, the meme, boxes, a shortage of boxes, not a box rich society, they’re pirating the game, someone should knock down that fence, eyes to look at this game, their kid is playing in it, they’re cheating, mr umpire knock down that wall, why doesn’t the tall guy put the little guy on his shoulders, somebody had to lift, don’t handle me any more than you have to, bad back, fairness, these words are all tricks now, liberation, he’s in a hole, he could be a Morlock, post box society, I don’t analyze my own behavior, I often don’t know what to tell people, if you do your best you’re probably be all right, I can only emit so many, I cannot filter my negative emotions, not as stoic, this is an are you depressed or not, there is no overall purpose to life, a sign of depression, people of different ages, you’re in a nursing home, what pills to put you on, how depressed are you at being old, do yourself in, grandchildren not visiting you, hold the ereader up, cognitive abilities declined, let audiobooks wash over me, the last question, this test is not good, what do you do, Kentucky in your car, get a flat, cellphone is on low battery and no signal, no carjack, need to learn to change a flat, be prepared, triple A equivalent, an uncle who knew how to fix fences and change tires, spry, one or two of his brothers, the hoping that somebody comes along, hope is not a plan, foreseeing, that’s what wisdom is, a carton of water, some oil, alternator died, superclever, very proud of myself, using the tools at hand, it’s when you are great, knowing your great, not needing renowned or acclaimed, no RE no AC, how proud were you?, learning how to ride a bicycle, just gave up, can swim very well, came so naturally, proud to be walking around, do something you’ve never been able to do before, writing your first essay that doesn’t suck, doing some of your own research, good times, something you have to learn, but for what purpose, what the problem is and how we should fix the problem, reading some Foundation, getting at what’s wrong with it, putting it out there, for your own benefit, shared interests, nobody is interested in Foundation (even those watching the tv show), Paul Krugman, he should have read Alfred Bester, Dune, go to the park, out there to look at things sometimes, getting the sun, vitamin d bro, sniff some pheromones, a raccoon came up to me, let it sniff me, bitten, what did it do, being bitten, startled, animals don’t bite just to taste, special kinda crazy, fear response, trying to be considered by it, be more leery, the whole rabies process, animals with rabies, the episode of Doctor Quinn, she’s a medicine woman, the best of western medicine, it’s all danger of the week, fear/danger, reality more twisted and weird than it is dangerous and fear, actual fucking vs. theoretical fucking, your pension, defund your housing, you need to know about it, Netflix and streaming services, cost money and doesn’t give me anything, that consumer culture horror, digitial subscriptions to three magazines, Seize The Press, anti-capitalist, they don’t have a press, a red triangle around it, you love tech, old tech and good tech that works, not a fetishist, a smartwatch, wearing shit, what do you need that for?, being productive, bad heart, low oxygen, commanded to get your steps in, conspicuous consumption, apple watches, bombs to bomb people, screen protector and case, two finicky about finding the right one, one of those questions, making decisions is really bad, when their is so many options, act by not acting, alpha haven’t happened, make up a set of principles, change your principles later, don’t turn down money, wasn’t a decision, just a policy, makes your life way better to cut things out, what criteria to abide by, made in Israel, I’m not going to buy that, who’s better, Android or Apple, an LG phone, good features, all the things that make a modern phone, stuck into the ecosystem, expandable memory, the way you don’t get screwed by the phone company, their cloud, forget about the privacy implications, keeps you in the ecosystem, it’s free just press this button, you have to fight against them, it is slightly better, Apple is very very closed, texting somebody in blue (vs. green), a way to suck you in and keep you broken, who you gonna believe me or your own research, he can’t get his banking app to work on his phone, look into sideloading, theoretically can be done, how robust is it?, the official app store, they don’t want you to see Alex Jones, find a way, Android is very capable of being sideloaded, windows traditionally that was the only way, if you get trained properly, play a game on a website, don’t let them trap you, fuck with your food, fuck with your phone, fuck with your life, frozen with fear and regret, very afraid of regret, did something really mean, legal career, doing your best at the time, can’t justify it, let it roll through me, paralyzed by regret, inform our future actions, massive decline at some point, still producing Jesse particles, back among the children, 4 days a week, doesn’t suck, there’s lots of patterns to it, never even think about writing it down, scheduling apps, too chaotic for voicemail, spam calls, text message is better, some more particles next time.

The Gods Of Mars by Edgar Rice Burroughs

Posted by Jesse Willis

The SFFaudio Podcast #831 – AUDIOBOOK/READALONG: The Aeneid by Virgil (Books V to VIII)

The SFFaudio Podcast #831 – The Aeneid by Virgil [Books V – VIII] read by George Allen (for LibriVox) and translated by John Dryden. This is the first third of the epic poem, books V to VIII (comprised of XII Books) running 4 hours 18 minutes, followed by a discussion of them. Participants in the discussion include Jesse and Scott Danielson

Talked about on today’s show:
books 5-8, three, the entire Aeneid, zip up all the things into one show, one long show?, the first half and the second half, how did we devide these?, at the end of book six the whole things changes, The Odyssey, having trouble getting into this, washing over, what happened?, find things, Great Courses series, Elizabeth Vandiver, 1-6 seems to be the interesting bit, 7-12 was the interesting bit, gung-ho Rome, an Avengers movie, power armour, couple of decades ago, the very ending, finding out about that, verym memorable, a good chunk, one of the books of this book, the shield of Aeneas, exemplifies what’s weird about this book, The Iliad is weird compared with The Odyssey, operating on its own, a cast of characters, a bunch of heroes, Achilles, Patrochlus, the other team, the gods, trying to get the stories about being men, the older dudes are there, know who they are, the story of individual heroes from individual towns, two Ajaxes, an everyman’s story, an individual’s story, every dude has a superpower, a massive seperation, Aeneas is not much of a man as a human being, he is piety personified, dutiful to the gods and destiny, a product of a bunch of things, checkboxes, running a race, certain checkpoints, these all things happened in Roman history, telling a story people already know, all the future visions that we see are contemporary, a propaganda piece, more like a bible, moral stories, how Greeks behave, Romans are already behaving, we are seeing some contemporary for Augustus, some ancient stuff, also shorter, both are in one, if we go into any individual passage and break it down a bit, the Dryden translation, the Fagles translation, end of book 8, page breaks from the bottom, a greenwood shade for long religion known, about a grove, a forest, such vistas, stands by the streams that wash the Tuscan town a holy horror to the grove, a holy forest, beautiful poetic, almost Lovecraftian, the first inhabitants, to Sylvanus vowed, the guardian of the flocks and fields, annual day, the particular setting, the Romans have a set of gods like the Greeks, a million percent legit, they are pantheists, everything is full of gods, the god of the sewers, if you work for the city as a sewer man, your duty is holy, a car or a badge, a holy priest of this goddess, that is not capitalism, everything is infused with religion, keep things great, intense secure, the allies that they’re getting ready for the coming war with the Latians, now from a rising ground, his wondering eyes around, from left to right, thither, weary horses fed, now it gets fun, where the shield description starts, the fated arms, within a winding vale she finds her son, presented with weapons by his mom, but the goddess Venus, off in a glade’s recess by a frigid stream, fighting swaggering Latin ranks, savage Turnus to a duel, a little more touching, she shews her heavenly form without disguise, desiring eyes, same information, in the form of someone else, in The Odyssey, as Mentor, Telemachus, who could it have been but the goddess Athena, this is literally her son, the god who made the armor is not his father (but her husband), he wants to see his mom, behold she says, having her first son embrace, his greedy sight, being made personal, he can’t hug her, she embraces him, radiant arms, she sets the weapons and armour, with that Venus reached to embrace her son, exactly the same information, his greedy sight, like Christmas, takes delight in the goddess’ gifts, what we really have to do is slow it down and think about what’s exactly happening, the crested helm that vomits radiant fires, the terrible crested helmet, solid bronze, like a dark blue cloud, given the perfect gift, good quality, his hands the fatal sword and corslet hold, manly thigh, mysterious mould, roman triumphs, burnished grieves of electrum, no words can tell its power…, the incredible description on what’s going on on the shield, the wars, Julian line, there is the story of Italy, seers and schooled in times to come, all the wars they waged, stock, Julius Caesar and his progeny, right up to the contemporary, this is poetry and not story, poetic devices built into the imagery, how exciting this would be to the Romans, walking around looking at sights familiar to them, an ancient world that’s already ancient, not a new land, an old land full of people already, should be a new land, prime of the world, the caves of Mars, the marshal twins, Romulus and Remus, the green grotto, dugs, lithe neck, licked her wolf pack into shape, intrepid of the swelling, licked at their tender limbs, she’s shaping them into men, pretty great, happening upstairs right now, they look like dogs, they might shape up, the foster dam, sucked secure, new Rome appears, the rape of the Sabine dames, accelerated quickly, a war succeeds, unexampled deeds, pray defend, this is the description of the land on the shield, an image being described, not far from there, he forged this shield, very good, the way to appreciate it, what happens in book, the part where Venus gives him the armour, Book 5 is all about Olympian style games, a funeral, funeral games, get gladiators, a ritual, go yell, form those pups, we see that hear in a moment, sorry, through this whole shield, brutally dragged, circus games were played, an anticipation of what’s about to happen, a projection into the future of this book, a war succeeds, breach of public faith, arms they pray defend, the Romans don’t exist yet, plight the peace, each other’s charger, they’re friends, early in this book, a fatted sow, imprecations on the purgered head, firey steeds, vulture’s fud, battling old king, same chiefs, stood in full armour, lifting cups, a charger here is not a horse, a cup, two four horse chariots, man of Alba you shouldn’t have kept your words, from brakes of thorns, punishment, viscera here and there, ready for that good Roman soil, restore the banished kings, the Roman you asserts their native rights, mounted a massive siege to choke the city, in freedom’s name, Roman history, to win by famine or fraud surprising, the flud, his likeness meancing, burst her chains, scap’d from their chain, for their guide, heroic Manleus, gud, held the capital’s heights, then Rome was poor, straw, gold, on the left before, on the right after, the silver goose before the shining gate, by her cackles saved the state, Paul Revere, not a major character in the American revolution, the new thatch bristled thick, the gold arcade, Gauls attack the gates, Gauls! Gauls!, ascend and seize the walls, Romans pretended like they never started wars, modern empires use today, Gulf of Tonkin, the Maine, we were attacked!, you can probably inflate any sort of incident you want, the gold dissembled well their golden hair, long alpine spears, striped shirts, long shields, a lot of gold, that’s also on the shield itself, gilding, a bas relief on this shield, little cartoons, the gold lied, hardby, nearby, naked throw their shields, targets dropped from heaven, dancing priests of Mars, here modest matrons in their soft litters, odorous gums, and chaste matrons riding in pillowed, far hence removed, the Stygian seats are seen, the furies hissing from the nether ground, the torments of the doomed, cringing before the furies, you?, the narrator stepping in, and Cato’s holy ghost is dispensing laws, a contemporary of Augustus, a reflection back of going to Hell, set apart the virtuous souls, finish this giant shield, new stanza, the dancing dolphins, cut the precious tide, the heaving sea, the blue deep foamed, swam the dolphins, cut the waves in two, amid the main, water, ocean, sea, their brazen beaks, watery plain, Battle of Actium, seething, molten gold, I, Claudius, the Battle of Kursk, D-Day, the Battle of Stalingrad, a definitive battle, whathisname and the lady, in pride of place, the propaganda end of this particular poem, young Caesar, his beamy temples, the Julian star, the senate and people too, high astern he stands, lustrous brows, Agrippa seconds him, his manly brows, forshows, performed in part for Augustus, have Virgil in, Virgil performs this part, we’re not forgetting about you Agrippa, how to win this battle, impelled by favouring winds, proud ensign, Agrippa marries a Julian, barbarian aides, the Bactrians from a far, the Egyptian wife, troops of every stripe, in his retinue, the end of the Earth, Cleopatra, camels, Arabians near, of tounges discordant, his ill-fate follows him, forky prows, the water glows, all launch in as one, cleaving triple beaks, a description of the battle, it seems as if the Cyclades again, afloat on the swells, showering flaming toe, fireballs are thrown, the fields of Neptune take a purple dye, her cruel fate, the snakes behind, clacking her native rattles, her destiny coming, the dog Anubis barks but barks in vein, the clash of the two cultures, the Romans were contemptuous of the Egyptians, so much food, massive pyramids and ancient culture, how they treated Caesarean, monster gods, great Minerva, Athena, Discord, Bellona is the wife of Mars, there in the heart of battle, with grim furies, Strife and Triumph rushing in, bloody lash in hot pursuit, the land of Dis, pours down his arrows, quit the watery fields, and scanning the melee, Apollo bent his bow, see her calling, tinting the winds, let her sheets run free, invokes the gales, heaves her breast for breath, sails, panting and pale with future of death, driven along by winds and waves and scudding through the throng, SCUD missiles from the first Gulf War, just opposite sad, hides the flying host, the Nile immersed in morning, all his rippling robes, all his conquered people, Nilus is the river god of the Nile, the sow with 30 white piglets, everything is alive, I’m gonna kill you, the god throws down fear, the retreat, his thanks expressed, 300 temples in the town he placed, in triple triumph, eternal vows, August is great because he’s dutiful to the gods, diverting us, three shining nights, the streets with praise, the theaters with plays, drenched in his gore, upon his throne, hangs the monumental crowns on high, the roads resounded, strewn with slaughtered steers, mounts them high on the lofty temple doors, the vanquished, and in tongue, the ungirt Numedian race, they got no pants, the tamed Euphrates, the Rhine, the Danes unconquered, a map, as motley, the nomad race, archers bearing quivers, bridling at his bridge, divinely wrought, unknown the names, he admires the race, a detail, out of the sky, oh, mom they’re the best, I don’t know who these guys are, more into it, we’re so distanced from it, the poetry, the rhyme, when the rhyme don’t work, blood and good, forced rhymes make you engage with the material more, point to two, the visit to the underworld, the games, part of their tradition, when the Romans want to turn the people to their side, hold a games, it has to be tied to something, an anniversary, a Roman religious festival, funerals and funeral memorials, we’re having a games, you pay for the games, before they were Romans, wrong by the Greeks with no honour, everything is calm now, the civil wars are over, I’m just like Aeneas, people who lose, over in Sicily, one guy slips in blood, everybody gets prizes, nobody on team Trojan, he brings everybody along, political propaganda, I can help every American, no child left behind, such a good boy, respectful of his troops and the gods, our Republic was at war, the most striking thing in the underworld, how Christian it was, not Heaven, nicer parts of the underworld, a little bit of an explanation, resembles the Catholic viewpoint of Purgatory, getting out of Purgatory, punishment for people who are bad, you did bad stuff in life, this is different from the Greek underworld, you don’t really want to be there, everybody goes there, from Book 6, line 850, taints, plagues, so long energized in the flesh, drilled in punishments, later Dante-esque, they must pay, Elysium’s broad expanse, headed to Heaven, striking, doesn’t fit, August isn’t Christian, compatible, Milton and the great Larry Niven, conversation with Julie, A Houseboat On The Styx by John Kendrick Bangs, enlightened pagans, prepping the way for Jesus, up or out vs. down or under, burying people, doing right by people’s bodies, isn’t buried, in real life, outsourcing these things, you don’t wash your own father’s body, you hire a service for that, disconnecting from the reality, dig up the corpse, this was my grandfather, say that to your son, uh huh, a part of him, Romans are deeply connected to the people they kill, duty for your country, my gods tell me we are destined for this land, remembering the end, the anticipation for that end, a genocide, they’re going to kill all these people, future allies, fate is such that, I made the land peacable, we were a house divided, Abraham Lincoln, started a war, unofficially punished, who’s monument is the biggest, the Lincoln memorial, not a figure of Washington, imposing, a giant statue of Lincoln sitting in a chair, a throne, U.S. Capitol, strip of land, quite symbolic, really something, become politicians, done the tour, has no impact, this stuff can wash over you, that lady was the mom of that dude, about this whole thing, multiple purposes, checkpoints it has to go through, this is not a fiction story, alternate history, filling in the gaps, Rommel is one of the characters, you can’t kill Patton, city state propaganda, a lot more like this whole book, more distancing, an individual on his way home, struggling with another people, an amalgam of those two, a duty to perform in the present, as Beowulf does, a Dane or a Jute, connected with that, a Celt and an Irish and a viking and a Swedish, viking is a verb, relationship with the gods, with Dido, got to run because of fate, sees her in the underworld, she’s with her husband, I’m sorry, not having the dead speak, he talks to his dad, pretty amazing, a paper copy, near the beginning, a huge throng of the dead, the Golden Bough, a huge hit in the early 20th century, assume it is connected to this, The Twelve Dancing Princesses by Bros. Grimm, wearing out their shoes, I will allow any man who can solve this mystery to marry one of my daughters, the punishment is death, fuck around find out if you don’t find out, a young soldier and a witch gives him advice, the witch says to him, don’t drink what they offer you, they will drug whoever is locked up with them, underneath their beds is a secret doorway into an underworld, a cloak of invisibility, steps on one the girl’s heel’s once, three trees, silver, gold and diamond, breaks off a branch from each, twelve boats in the lake, scooches down, that’s weird, twelve princess, they dance all night, ascending the stairs, that’s weird happens a third time, that smells like bullshit, three branches, Eric pointed out some interesting things, the dream world, an inversion, like Bilbo Baggins, sneaks in finds out, profits from it, behind it all, no sex before marriage, related to this story somehow, the visit to the underworld, filled the time, wandering them among them, Phoenician Dido, endless woods, through the shadows, see or seem to see, wept and approached the ghost with tender words with love, the final measure with the sword, the powers on high, the depths of earth, the will of the gods, these mouldering places so forlorn, stay a moment, running away from whom, the last word, with welling tears tried to soothe her rage, her features no more moved, set in stony flint, in a new light, I did this because its the gods’ will, I didn’t want to do it, the wills were aligned, so I’m out, he didn’t know what she was going to do, turning it into a Catholic podcast again, it’s getting close, now see through a glass darkly, what gods’ plan is, but you have to get your toenails clipped, defer, the gods are capricious, the development from Greek gods, Clash Of The Titans (1981), Venus loves Aeneas, the apple of Discord, beauty contest, very well said, Upon The Dull Earth by Philip K. Dick, Rick, practicing witchcraft, Dick conflates it with angels, she gets to close to these fairies/angels/ghosts, ritual of bloodletting, after she’s dead, recreates a scene from The Odyssey, talk to Sylvia again, talk to the dead, dead people in dream, turns the world into a nightmare, taking the form of someone else, leaps from that body to another, tries to escape, every passing car, rigid, waiting numbly, the cop has become her, sure he answered dully, familiar fingers, red nails, the hand he knew so well, sure, hurtled ahead, she hurried everywhere, she was omnipresent, please tell me, Rick, I’m back, it was a mistake, that’s all in the past, a wretched unhappy heap, huge cleated boots, sparkled white in the sun, a difficult place to find, filled up the bowl, briefly he glanced up, a face tear stained and frantic, waver and slide, trembling red mouth, the girl at the bowl bent to dry herself, threw herself on the chair, Rick she murmured, she shook her head bewildered, superpowerful, lost love, a girlfriend that haunts you, when we want to connect with ghosts they go everywhere with us, we see them everywhere, we as modern 21st century weirdos don’t connect with, what makes these powerful stories so powerful, in essence very very real, with the last three books, wade through the washes of words we flow over us, a white animal?, the sacrificial animal being white, a pigeon, white horses, in order to win this race, a companion piece to The Lord Of The Rings, the adventures of Fredigar Bulger, the hobbit that doesn’t leave, a smaller scale story, an Atlas of Middle Earth, when we fit all that chronology in, all this backstory that you have to fit in, the original folktale versions of The Iliad and The Odyssey, those are the definitive sources for those events, stories shaped, not an individual guy, it wasn’t a dude, a bunch of people telling a story, get really good at singing songs, Barbara Allen, similar to Robin Hood, useful for telling stories, not based on a true phenomenon, based on wishes, people who get slighted at parties, roses grow in graveyards, there was this great battle long ago, you have a famous hero, a particular dude, these two stories intertwine, reading Detective Comics, Legion Of Superheroes, The Brave And The Bold, the history of the Roman empire, ruling actual Gotham City, the funeral games in Book 5, games in The Odyssey, Odysseus participates in games, the axes, washes up on the beach, a princess, who is this stranger, his great prowess at all these sports, keeping the community together, sex with lots of goddesses, get this empire governed, definitely weird, Bewoulf has a dragon, in an epilogue almost, fairy tales and folk tales, commercial success, we’re having fun with this, what we did her, scheduled that Block, What Mad Universe, meta-science fiction, if there’s thirty white puppies…

Posted by Jesse Willis