The SFFaudio Podcast #857 – AUDIOBOOK/READALONG: Ben-Hur by Lew Wallace, read by Mark F. Smith (22 hours 49 minutes). The discussion includes Jesse, Alex (Pulpcovers) and Tom Pace.
Talked about on today’s show:
A Tale Of The Christ, 1880, Daylight Savings, fall for a story too good to be true, very embarrassed, no one will know how stupid Jesse is, integrity, feel contempt for, “determined to do his own research”, Robert Ingersoll, not a true story, sounds to good be true, agnostic, civil war union officers, Battle Of Shiloh, there’s no substance to it, an 1874 letter, too good a story to not be true, a giant apology book, you should believe in the Christ, an argument against Ingersoll, The Greatest Story Ever Told, The Ten Commandments, suffers from not having Yul Brenner, kinda similar, the guy he was raised with he grows up to hate, Jesus adjacent, if this was a book written 1000 years closer to Jesus, when they show Jesus it’s from the back, reaction shots, the deturion, so many emotions, no water for him, best performance on screen, the 1925 silent movie, the 2016, 4 by 3, the sea-battle, real triremes, bloop, the music, the intercutting, the chariot race, one of the greatest movie scenes ever, Mad Max II, chase sequence, spectacle on screen, coulour and ultrawidescreen, best not to bother, script problems, make it shorter, the poster, in the chariot leaning to one side, farther into the narrative, wins on one wheel, go up on two wheels, adaptations help clarify, why am I loving it, to Rome with his adopted father, pretty short for a Ben-Hur movie, Areus is not on board the ship, just kind of escapes, this is really important, a story about love of the Father, a theme, God, reaction shots, when people meet Jesus, pays him back, almost like Jesus is your best gay friend, caressing the body of Jesus, if you didn’t know it was Jesus, they’re not gay for each other, a barrier breakdown, one of the themes, he ultimately rejects his adopted father Rome, he rejects Judaism in favour of Christianity, a Roman villa, he does become a Christian, a fulfilment of his Judaism, I’ve left the religion of my fathers, a sect of Judaism, a Greek influenced sect, almost all set in Palmyra, he does race in Rome, a lot of time skips, works against it, everything that it is doing is very well done, how they condense the 23 hour book into a 4 hour movie, shortly after the chariot race, vengeance didn’t give him what he wanted, greater than vengeance, ties better as a theme, 5 years in the desert, no longer directly connected, in the 1925 movie, putting that gladiatorial training to use, they dump that, it is kinda wasted, the Judean uprising, Masada (1981) tv miniseries, Joseph For The Temple, a band of young men, a revolution happening, protect the temple, a militia, the temple burns down, can’t stop history, a slightly outside perspective, dig deep into the story of Jesus, a very well put together book, Balthazar, on a separate quest, the three wise men, almost like a parallel story, that connection, the brother story, you feel his betrayal in the movie, a little bit older, great actors, take him away, that sneer, arrogance, Heston acts the hell out of that, fury, betrayal, golden age of Hollywood acting, the heart of that movie, the heart of the book, overwhelming need to love Jesus, bestselling American novel, Uncle Tom’s Cabin, slavery is bad, Esther and her dad, Egyptian, a devotee back and forth, in the background the Moses story, a prince of Egypt, the name, the name Hur is in the bible all the time, that fictional line connection, a land captured by the Romans, explaining religion to Chinese kids, they don’t grow up with Christianity, the New Testament, stories about Batman, Joker, Riddler, Catwoman, Joe Chill, stay outta Crime Alley, the backstory, the batsignal, commissioner Gordon, Robin, you don’t have copyright, Spider-Man or Superman, a bunch of apocryphal stories, back broken by Bane, the other Dick, Nightwing, the non-canon stories, Iron Man’s story, whatever superhero, believe it like an adult, religion book club on sundays, a scene from that book, relevant to out lives today, in a different way, in a novelized form, action, betrayal, leprosy and healing, a lot of meat to think about, the premiere of Ben-Hur, Lawrence Of Arabia, Spartacus, based on true events, Quentin Tarantino shift of historicity, Christ Pulp Fiction, accused of being pulpy, in used bookstores, panned the book, wasn’t the best book, why are books so influential, in 2025, Gaza holocaust, Nakhbah part II, getting Israel happening again, Ivanhoe, The Count Of Monte Cristo, Sir Walter Scott, your family has been buried in a tomb, quest for vengeance, the Jew and his daughter, roasted over a fire by the evil Norman, King Richard, Robin Hood, like super-man or batman, Ivanhoe adds to that narrative, emotional change, back from a foreign war, to his father’s house, alternative girl, knightly towards, represents Romans, conqueror’s class, the opening of the book, etymology, how English has multiple word for pork, swines and pigs and pork, also about slavery, huge in the South of the United States, offered a good picture of what slavery was like, a swineherd and a jester, the Rotschilds family, the Napoleonic Wars, baronages out of it, defeated the ottomans, let’s have this zionism thing happen, Americans in favour of Zionism, Jews need a homeland, traceable back to Ivanhoe, Christians in the United States and Britain, prior Ivanhoe, positive descriptions of Jews, racism, racial stereotypes, positive racism, interesting, loving money, a heroic race, the Sheik Ilderim, played by a welshman with shoepolish on his face, a surrogate father, the history of these horses, stars in the sky, astronomy, arabic names, the mother of the horse, connected to his family, connected to Judah Ben-Hur, weird in 1959, Palestine, parallels the story, powerful but disrespected, a little bit like the Mongol trading empire, if you have a pass, get the khans against you, he comes across great in the book, especially in the movie, brings the arabs and the jews close together, semitic races, leaves his father, until Areus dies, becomes the heir, time with the emperor, the movie improves in some ways, before we got to meet Ben-Hur, 4 hours in, the Nativity story takes so long, where isn’t this biblically accurate?, how is it told?, second person plural, hey reader let’s walk over there, a palace in Antioch, a paragraph of description of what is not described, the book isn’t trying to push through to the chase sequence, doesn’t drag much, a magazine serial about the wise men, available separately, a cool series of stories, it became Ben-Hur, LibriVox, Jesse wasn’t raised Christian, Melchior, Balthazar, and Gaspar, the answer is no, basically the same, thought to come from this place, in scripture, assumed to be 3, the magic number, three chairs, three bears, three beds, three wise men, for convenience, adoring the baby at the same time, two separate incidents, makes the detail really vivid, had the effect, when Avatar came out, went to their therapist, I want to be a blue person swinging from vines, blue Tarzan, 90 minute movies, books were the immersive reality of the 19th century, between the book and the first silent film, huge chariot races live on stage, the medium has fallen greatly, the new media spotlight, totally play the fuck out of a Ben-Hur game, Ubisoft Assassin Creeds, collect tokens, the cutscene when Jesus shows up, then hair, your character’s face, the chariot scene, the galditorial scene, if a church isn’t trying to raise money, an immersive experience, the Message, render unto Caesar, ends the same way?, married with two kids, Egyptian princess, turns out he was jackass, no satisfaction, the race goes on, Masala, a very biblical thing, the competitive brothers in scripture, taken on Roman values, those are real, Roman values vs. Christian values, Nietzsche, slave morality, turn the other cheek, interacts in the modern era, times of conscription, conscientious objectors, into battle without a gun, an alternative way to go, really powerful to see unarmed people hit by police, makes them stronger, give them a pass, Nixon being a Quaker, not that kind of Quaker, deep into that, not a very funny joke, how many of the 13 adaptations you’ve seen, on YouTube, that Jesus stuff being born, shows back up over and over again, the thread that connects and reflects, the 10 other adaptations are The Fast & The Furious, sucessively sutpider, Point Break with cars instead of surfboards, DVD VHS combo players, a viscous circle, could be the same character, blonde Keanu, it’s all about family, hot girls and cars, Antioch drift, we love racing, suped up horse, can’t we have it all, join the FBI, that series becomes a cartoon, cars in space, becomes hot-wheels, Ben-Hur doesn’t do that, two videogames, PS2, Circus Maximus for X-Box, Chariot Wars, Blood Of Braves, big in the movie, not very big in the book, a big climax, another third of the book, movies and books are different, interior scenes are less good, unparalleled, Aureus, sees the rowers, attack speed, battle speed, ramming speed, all these sweaty men, pass out, a parallel scene, another test, this is the background for the Conan The Barbarian movie, killed, goes to a mill and become strong, a little bit of background, this particular rower, his body being symmetrical, why is he doing that?, he’s Jewish Conan, gets the revenge that he wants, loses the girl, being taken away, surviving slavery, coming into the full power, bloody vengeance, Conan has two dads, William Smith and James Earl Jones, snake dad, the body you have, that was me, I’m your father, almost buys it, Robert E. Howard’s Conan as a rejection of both the Roman system and a rejection of the Jesus path, Conan doesn’t turn the other cheek, he’s not duty bound in the same way, master mentality, inference in the book, he’s bought into the Roman system, the peace of his childhood, a brother to this family, why he’s doing that, adopted the Roman values, power is everything, I am the determinant of what is good and what is wrong, when he does it it is not rape, when a goddess messes with his head, The Frost Giant’s Daughter, striking, ultimately Robert E. Howard is not a Christian, never belonged to a denomination, generically protestant, Episcopalian, Baptist of some flavour, not sure about all of this, a great story, Batman’s cool, don’t buy the Batman merch, Superman, Indiana Jones?, gonna have to be me, being Batman, how many guys have been Batman, what are the notes that Charlton Heston committed, Judah Ben-Hur, portrayed 4 times, not all the plays and musicals, because it was biblical, printed and pronounced, Encylopedia of quotations, King Solomon, Ben means Son, Ibn means Son, The Thirteenth Warrior, William Wyler, Marlon Brandon, Rock Hudson, Burt Lancaster, Paul Newman, Burt Lancaster, Kirk Douglas, the supportive slave, a gay scene, thought to be gay, in the closet, the sexiest man, women were very disappointed, The Vikings (1958), rotoscope for The Secret Of Nimh, two rats are fighting, Tony Curtis, Jamie Lee Curtis’ dad, generational, Michael Douglas, young people don’t watch movies, they haven’t seen Ben-Hur, on laserdisc, ultrawidescreen, Lawrence Of Arabia (1962), one of the best things in that media ever, the power of Ben-Hur as a book, Nativity scenes, they have fully adopted one set of values of this son of god, powerful arguments, through Esther, they’re all blending together, a parallel course with Jesus, a regular person (a prince), trials and tribulations, navigate through, a shocking thing, how strange the healing is, he healed a woman in a wheelchair, she had long COVID she’s feeling much better, uh-huh, more faith in Jesus, legitimately healing things, in the 1925 movie, passing the mother and daughter, an in camera tehcnique, a different coloured light hits them, an in-camera effect, red welts, red filter, the wounds disappear, it rains and the storm washes away their leprosy, pilgrimages, a huge part of what’s going on, ache in my shoulder, not for healing, people do it, sometimes things happen, very mysterious, theology properly speaking, the framework of Christianity, divine authority, perform a miracle, the reason the miracles happen is to validate their claim of authority, the loaves and the fishes, not like a D&D cleric, cure light wounds, to be able to forgive sins, I’ve seen him do these miracles, anyone there, a narrative testament story, someone’s account of it, when Jesus was walking the earth, different sets, Dead Sea Scrolls, what’s in the canon for Batman, is he really an alien?, was he raised in Smallville, Kansas town, Metropolis, not New York, not Philadelphia, buying into the story, look at the values he’s espousing, can you emulate those values, as cool as Batman, as independent as Batman, swings, beats up badguys, dressed up as a Spider-Man, what would Spider-Man do?, knows and understands, with great power comes great responsibility, the value set, mysterious ones, contradictory seeming ones, I come with a sword, Matthew 10:34-36, not peace but the sword, what happens to him, dividing people, not everybody believes turning the other cheek is the right way, love your enemies, crucifixes, Hero (2002) with Jet Li, separation is only one part, a transformative system, conjunction, hermetic philosophy, togetherness, Ecclesiastes, the meek will inherit the earth, alchemy, the union of the family, the rebus, a multiplicity, the combination then separation, discipline, the hostile brothers, he divides the house, Judah saved Masala’s life, the falling of the tile, what caused the tile to fall, the worst interpretation, added in zealots, anti-Romans, shot the new Roman governor, the sister leans on one of the tiles, Ben-Hur takes the rap for it, not God exactly, supervise the repair of the roof, Masala investigates the roof himself, he knows what he is doing is wrong and does it anyways, getting into Masala’s head, becomes wealthy, steals the fortune, works both ways, extortion, very mafia like, you pay up you pay down, why Joseph is taking his cousin/wife to Bethlehem, the Nazarene, small town Saskatchewan, the story for the background, a manger, a cave, 4 hour detail, ah ha, mm hm, the key to the success of the 1959 movie, in reflection to Ben-Hur, you’ve become Masala, I doesn’t like that at all, Jungian shadow work, why you something bothers you, Michio Kaku talking, you evil fuck, they don’t care at all, you evil fuck, be the opposite, almost irrational hatred, hatred for Masala, adopting the course of the Prince of Peace, attracted to the story, reflective of real experience, that doesn’t sound like The Prince of Peace, what’s happening in the story, the sister and the mom not wanting to be known to be alive and lepers, they love their brother and son, funny and very Jewish, God cannot be everywhere so he made mothers, suckled and swaddled, this guy in the garage, more hands-offish, a bicycle, you’re going to learn to ride, the god that is your mom, more standoffish father figure, same for girls and boys?, to the maximum extent, in the 1925 movie, when Mary looks at people, people really change, on that donkey, lifts her veil, Mary Pickford, a slow smile, a kindly look, swept away by this divine face, the melting of hatreds and false beliefs, how can we have this effect on people in a magical way, the attraction of seeing Christian charity at work, acting out their beliefs, in a narrative, why this book was super-popular, in the States, sales overseas, Gone With The Wind, Harper Bros. claiming copyright over it, you can tell the story of Jesus because he’s totally out of copyright, anybody can write about it, great ambitious books, the Left Behind books, rapture books, very popular, Tyler Perry, Dollar Parton is a billionaire?, Dollywood, a subset of black people, why is he in this movie, he’s massive, a certain subset of people on earth, The Phantom Menace, podracing, the story of Luke Skywalker, betrayed by his uncle Ben?, there might be something to that, George Lucas as a hack, pick interesting things, steal from the best, everything worked, The Dam Busters (1955), they’re kendo swords, sounds cool, looks cool, what happens to Luke, dangerously overthought, Joseph Campbell Hero’s Journey thing, a mistake, free HBO, pirate television, as a young person, Luke is visiting Yoda, you gotta stay with me, you haven’t done your training, a selfish little twit, following the formula, the refusal of the call, the Campbell arc, forcing it on there, back to that falling tile, divided before that, the breech that breaks them apart completely, the straw that breaks the camel’s back, you’re not the man you need to be, my tool in my new job, one becomes obsessed with the other, condemned to the galleys, within the Conan movie, Thulsa Doom isn’t thinking about that little boy at all, for him it was a Tuesday, younger days, steel was the important thing, you’re not narrowing it down, make money, enslave the children, passes from hand to hand, a Vanirman, buys him from the mill, gives him training, pit-fighter, wins and wins and wins, precataclysmic Genghis Khans, to hear the lamentations of their women, living off of Conan, one night mysteriously, unexplainably frees him, the sheik with his horses, weird freedom, the snakes facing each other, now he’s got something to go do, that is another adventure, this is why these stories are powerful, the “save the cat” books, something very fluffy, let’s do heists, one last adventure, that last Indiana Jones movie, go find a really old book, Dial Of Destiny, we got what we wanted, we wanted more of the same, find other books, reading Robinson Crusoe, as you get older, some decision that we make, Fast And Furious 10, catharsis, go to the book, looking at my books, have you done an episode on them?, Gustave Dore, Pilgrim’s Progress, Thomas Merton, a fantastic book, a philosophy, read the old stuff on the shelf, take a photo of it, thrift shop, a book or two a week, two things, The Eternal Savage, Edgar Rice Burroughs, Recalled To Life by Robert Silverberg, The Tissue Culture King by Julian Huxley, son of the science guy Huxley, Edward Page Mitchell’s The Tachypomp, a time traveling clock, The Senator’s Daughter, a Chinese-Vegetarian party, 1879, a nutzo story, everything about it is science fiction, Return Engagement by Margaret St. Clair, freedom, The Eternal Lover, inter-equal, unfrozen caveman, that Pauly Shore movie, Encino Man (1992), Mark Nelson, Nu son of Nu, sabertooth tiger, Tarzan’s in this one, primitive man against, comely cave-woman, the volcanic horizon, Herman Hesse, Steppenwolf, Cora, wild primeval wolf, bourgeois values, carefree elusive Hermoine, the year we’re on?, Steppenwolf, cowed and comfortable, severe dysfunction, thoughts, alternate realities, if people really want to do it, 1877-1962, a possibility of actually doing it, a show where nobody’s there, this amazing ai thing that just happened, google assistant, google lm, generate a podcast discussion of it using ai voices, in real time, it’s not bad except the analysis is crap, NPR voices, that’s a really good point, unbelievable how good it is, kind a scary, it uses a bunch of tricks, makes us question our everyday lives, rhetorical tricks, make it into a Dr Seuss poem, really great insights, Ben-Hur into an epic Dr. Seuss poem, a lot of text to process, 2 followers, so I met this guy, Arrius adopted son of Arrius, WWII in tweets, a great gag, too obscure, in the 2016 movie, played by god, Morgan Freeman, he’s a moor, the Gladiator 2 movie, in reflection against Gladiator (2000), a grudge against Rome, the plot of Gladiator 2, worthwhile, ships in the arena, mock trireme battles, Maximus’ son, the kid from the first Gladiator movie, Blood And Sand, Spartacus, a prequel, kept going on, goes through that cycle, adopting the Roman mentality, the morality of Roman excess, Batiatus and Xena, so good, so evil, Lucy Lawless, act the hell out, sleaze paperbacks, you killed my family, should I take pleasure in this, rebel against Rome, the war against Spartacus, no super-natural elements, the servile war, happened multiple times, more sexy time, consequences for it all, silent, research and fun, trivia pieces, the score, a chunky book, riding bicycles around the set, The Fall Of The Roman Empire (1964), El Cid (1961), Christopher Plummer, Richard Burton, girls liked Cleopatra, Where Eagles Dare (1968), super-smart and the opposite of evil, the podcast out tonight: Gentleman Prefer Blondes, huge at the time, her personality as we know it today, she’s nothing like that as a person, she plays that character for the rest of her life, the book is not a curse, the movie is a curse, Jane Russell, at one point Marilyn Monroe pretends to be Jane Russell, supersubversive, everything she wants in the end, innocently conniving, be a book reader, Skype is going away, a daylight savings day.
Posted by Jesse Willis