The SFFaudio Podcast #873 – AUDIOBOOK/READALONG: Killing Time by Donald E. Westlake

The SFFaudio Podcast #873- Killing Time by Donald E. Westlake (4 hours 25 minutes) read by Ben Tucker for LibriVox, followed by a discussion of it. Participants in the discussion include Jesse, Scott Danielson, Maissa Bessada, and Misha Burnett

Talked about on today’s show:
1961 novel, the great Donald E. Westlake, different titles, the same book, The Mercenaries, tore this book up, a new Donald Westlake, a phase, found everything by him, many pseudonyms, a lot of books, the Parker novels, strongly recommended, Plunder Squad, Butcher’s Moon, so much more Westlake, something to live for, maybe 10 of them, science fiction shorts, Anarchaos, a handful, I love him, as you should, real hard at the end, poor Maissa, mostly, feels like Donald Westlake, about the ending, for real, pretend to talk about the book, the “spoiler” word, one of the most stupid words for understanding reality, can there be a sequel to this book with the main character, he’s dead?, any other ideas?, the rules of fiction, a first person narrative where he dies at the end, first person past tense, another interpretation, he shot Cathy, the last three paragraphs, the pile of lumber, the front stoop, only got 2 minutes left, calling my name, far far away, between us was Cassal, cradling a shotgun, you set this up, I had to, the sound I heard was Cathy screaming, he shot Cathy, that hurt him more than anything, both ways, a first person narrative, if he died, even cooler now, he’s good, he didn’t forget that, how this book works, pretty weird book, what this book is, Red Harvest from the insider’s perspective, a Dashiell Hammett novel, Bruce Willis, can’t talk anymore, Yojimbo (1961) by Akira Kurosawa, samurai, very famous western starring Clint Eastwood, A Fistful Of Dollars (1964), an unproductive screenplay adapting Red Harvest, the Op, the Continental Op, a series character, was a Pinkerton, very quiet these days, Blackwater, private military agency, Red Dead Redemption, terrific game, Grand Theft Horse, a podcaster, Pinkerton’s Ghosts, a paranormal investigation branch, Hearst, the HBO show Deadwood, the first Hearst, the way you get rich is not by finding gold but by finding people who found gold, corruption, legal corruption, a private police force, a private army, mercenaries, security guards, overthrowing a town, we don’t find that out right away, a super-political book, social commentary, the situation people are in, hobby horse ideas, he’s very non-office, a book about politics, different factions, politics today, political philosophy, pure power, causes, 2 parties, which one is trying to take over, confused, the why behind all of it, Tim, a sympathetic character, do anything to defend his life, justified and necessary, three quarters of the killing, a war, stretching, an allegory for other wars, pointless killing, my team, your team, that is his political position, reading it today, zoom out, one country getting in the middle, a proxy war, manipulating both, my own army now, now I can fight this war, making that climax occur, to destroy both of them, he’s kinda like Conan, how can I exploit this situation, for a fist full of dollars, a comedy, a ronin, a samurai without a master, he’s talking about things he knows, themes, secretly obsessed with insurance, me not notice, this book has insurance, tomato boxes, gets the girl to do it, to protect himself, hedge your bets, something to do with insurance, my guy Richard Stark, kinda shocking, the stage, excited about producing local theater, write plays?, a performer, like Grofield in the Parker novels, Westlake is making fun of himself, really I’m an actor, I need to rob this bank to make another season of summerstock, producing plays that nobody goes to, 2017, many years ago, the name of the play that was produced, Tim Smith, leaned over and looked at the script, read it upside down, on page 68, A Sound Of Distant Drums, if it was a hit, good luck, this is a game of tennis Donald Westlake played with Lawrence Block, a movie theater, thinking about something, deciding on something, a restaurant, a Pizza Hut, when he walks out of the movie theater, reading a paperback on a park bench, what fun, why is that in there, a little piece of colour, the whilhelm scream, very distinctive, the Tarzan yodel, a little checkbox, Westlake does that a lot, self-referential moments, the Dortmunder novels, Jimmy The Kid, Andrew Kelp is in jail and reads “Child Heist” by Richard Stark, reads snippets, this is how we do it, Adios Scheherazade, Point Blank in the movie theater, the worst (first) of the Parker novels, became himself, out for revenge, revenge is stupid, a character arc, we get this instead, she was screaming, listen, that last page, 221 pages, page 211, the plant was wrapped in flames, the neutral cops, crawl down backwards, way down the street, cradling, icy cold, you set this up, the sound I heard, who’s dead, shot by somebody else, shooting the last vestiges of himself, Tim shot Cathy, it doesn’t say that, the worst thing he could have done, he raised the shotgun, that’s not what it says, if we’re filming this, he points the shotgun at Tim, fade to black, but fade to black, choose your own ending, either way it works really well, the spinning top at the end of Inception, no matter how many Donald Westlake movies you think exist there’s always more, It’s a Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World (1963) sort of movies, half-way through it, Cops And Robbers (1973), 2 new adaptations, Memory (retitled The Actor), right after Westlake died, always new last books coming out, a Bob Hope style character, one of the Stark novels, or a Dortmunder novels, the Stark novels get pretty bizarre, Ask The Parrot, 1951 Ford, an interesting fact, Score in the title, The Green Eagle Score, an airforce base, Westlake was a cop, he was a “snowtop” white helmeted, Navy police, break up fights, a cop in Germany, he’s never really on their team, or they’re criminals, a bit surprising, a little tubby, a little flab on him, he’s rich, he doesn’t have to work for a living, the easy life, the anti-Raymond Chandler, not starving, they don’t make good cars anymore, he’s getting paid by everybody, he’s the badguy, listening to his arguments, the pot-holes are filled, useless turds who didn’t know how to run the town, the analogy, The Screwtape Letters by C.S. Lewis, the safest road to hell is gentle underfoot, the perfect rationalizer, he doesn’t think of himself as a bad guy, evil, him staying quiet, screwed out of his house, the tax shift, never willing to say I did something wrong, confess to a lawyer, confess to a priest, not my job, to do terrible things and say it was my job, as an example, AOC, she thinks she’s a good person, she ain’t she won’t talk about things that are true, the other team, stuff they won’t talk about, with Tim in the diner, why is he up so late eating that sandwich, difficulty sleeping, why won’t he marry her, the death of the family, what’s missing, he likes her well enough, deep down he’s not a good guy, he’s not thinking about her, Westlake never hits us with this, this guy’s trying to kill him, Somebody Owes Me Money, people getting knocked off, a light comedy with romance, the girl is involved with trying to kill him, gambling winnings, fun, his father is constantly trying to find a loophole, The Risk Profession, an insurance adjuster, roads and traffic, tiny little wee story, technically science fiction?, people driving around New York, a hyperrealized version of our reality, a parking lot, people sitting in their cars, they’re just in there, they live in there, sit behind the driver’s seat of the car and wait in a parking lot?, do they have a job they’re supposed to be at?, that’s what inspires Westlake, a story idea, the overturning of the government in this town is not a good idea, corrupt but works, a clue, it works for him, incompetent government is a real thing, switching to another team, this reformist group, one party to get it over on the other party, this association secretly backed, for his own power, a very very cynical book but doesn’t feel it until the end, floating along, it’s a whodunit, the bodyguard, maybe I’m misreading this book, one of the lines that repeats, one of my seven closest friends is trying to kill me, he can’t honestly say, depressing, gets arrested, national guard, definitely not him, we think of Cathy being close to him, does he love her?, you didn’t even bother to tell me, shot at the first time, I had a need to talk to somebody, unload, is that selfishness, Scott does a lot of stuff for me, I hope I’m not using, a trade?, some people keep score, helped you move three times, when your dog is sick, fetched that ball for you, I need that dog for that sled dogging race next week, gut punch, got nervous, why are we going to war?, you should leave town, the final time: I’m going to war, why?, selfishness, he is a bad guy, almost tries to stop, killing his friend, I’m just gonna stand here and watch and wait, pulls him back, conscience, his first impulse, willing to accept corruption as the price of soft roads, if you listen to the mafia, all the good works they do for their town, I keep the neighbourhoods clean, no racism element, an all black town, an all white town, very targetedly political, as they get older, at certain point they freeze politically, can’t be surprised by new things, Lawrence Block, very closed mouths about his poltics, his home, New York, Hollywood, Hills View?, random audiobook of a Donald Westlake short, The Girl Of My Dreams, upstate New York, Manhattan, when you move to a small town, a store over there, that guy is a veteran, the lady who collects cats, the high school, the cement was filled with sand, he’s a good guy, a story, a thing that happened, Las Vegas 30 years ago, his last day, retiring, when the mob was in charge of Las Vegas, some pickpocket, they just took care of it, nice for the tourists, my potholes are full, this incident a lot, a true story, a break-in, stolen comics, a burglary, not, that’s not a thing, I know how this system works, in this conversation, trying not to dispatch cops, investigate burglaries, a criminal gang, the Bacon brothers, what building they’re in, should I go an knock on this person’s door, ask them to do it?, this is how it works, if I can’t get justice from the official system, the unofficial system, the opening sequence of The Godfather, political parties come and go, drugs not to be dealt in the schoolyard, he’s not going to stand for that, his only client is blackmailing everybody who’s grafting, the cop who he waves to, a member of a family who gets all the contracts, everybody needs a job, selling out the country, giving away everything, everyone is corrupt, this fake insurgency, drain the swamp, maybe Westlake knows better than me, everything is corrupt and totally evil, the Westlake Review (website), this paragraph, intentions, played both ends against the middle, didn’t know who he was, the moral of the piece, a complete picture, not a soft book, a whole lot deeper than it appears, brilliantly, look on the surface like happy goofy comedies, just fun entertainment, in the middle of the night, subtle, year and year and years ago, early 80s, reading everything by him, The Fugitive Pigeon, a “nephew” novel, a throw away line, used to write crossword puzzles for a living, the poet is on the pumpkin (five letters), 40 years later, Frost!, always working, he’s really good at that, a mystery novel, he wrote those, his science fiction books, it has a mystery in it, that’s not really what it’s about, hanging out with a good guy, a corrupt jerk?, evil guy?, pretty fuckin evil, oh man!, filming the ending, prefer Cathy be killed, it hits harder, underscores the point more, we care whether he does or not, that’s why we don’t need any more, a girl like her is a dime a dozen, figuring out where to end a story, figuring out where to beginning a story, I didn’t mean to read the whole thing, make sure the file is all there, 100 something pages into it, amazing, a page of opening lines of Parker novels, When the phone rang the Parker was in the garage killing a man, the night apron man, a mirror of him, unusual moniker, he glanced at me, ex-middleweight, his suit was brown and old, better to hide the gun with, it is that, he agreed, that’ll help, being sarcastic to each other, what’s this Smith’s front name?, a whole lot of buildup, writing stuff, writing stuff, keep your typewriter ribbon wet, quick, get it done, a little bit of revision, writing a novel is different, you have to make it work, Westlake novels and Block novels, Westlake never wrote a bad novel, they’re not all The Score, Kahawa, the coffee one set in Kenya, still no audiobook of it, Swahili for coffee, the reign of Idi Amin, very powerful, you don’t think politics, near Aruba, a non-fiction book coup, very interested in politics, in constructing this book, can we reconstruct how it was constructed, a full time writer, he writes, he observes people, with that observer’s eye, trained to look for stories, driving up to Westchester, this town is different, he was a solider, probably in WWII, he goes to war again, boosting tires and selling them (maybe to the Nazis), he was in the army but he was corrupt, undercuts, we can’t sympathize with Parker because he’s inhuman, so efficient, commentary on people, he’s everyman, just wants to be comfortable, everybody wants to be comfortable, Citizens For Clean Government, a voice of reason and conscience, she was wrong to put her faith in him, why are you doing this, he has money in the bank, he could have, a way to say: have a look, here you go, Guy De Maupassant, a 1906/1907 reprint, retell the plot of a Maupassant story, observant of humans, the same taskmaster, there was a family friendship, Gustave Flaubert, train in the practice of fiction writing, go and walk about the town, really seen the things, make me see them, eagerly write, the most essential points, send him out again, he had seen nothing whatsoever, little by little, this discipline trained the mind, the fewest possible words, a perfect etching, a wonderful observer, in his 30th year, Ball Of Fat, everyone instantly recognized, a new writer of great power, 200 or more short stories, a writer’s writer, Stephen King, named his own pseudonym, Richard Bachman, how sublte he is, he doesn’t hit you over the head, understated, who wrote this book, it was Westlake, he does this thing with character’s hands, they spread their hands, particular personality types, to talk to the first representative, hands going all over the place, a Westlakism, observing, play with your hands a lot, observing a real thing, a few that do, perfect little chracterization, a signature by Westlake, in his comic books, dialogue with somebody’s whole body, seek to incorporate, in this particular case, hands waving all over the place, not just personality, how emotionally invested, specific examples, page 40, the scene, page 39, we are only interested in dishonesty in government, the town: Winston, 1 tavern which stays open, pays bribes to the patrolman on the beat, the crime of staying open, the crime of accepting bribes, the CCG, seems very reasonable, the second gloss, moving the politics needle, changing the politics, 1 finger raised, icy enthusiasm, he had memorized it because he liked it, the reason is what the reason is, honest local citizens, cop on the beat, slight trace, stylistic reasons, can’t help but be comedic, he didn’t talk he wrote out loud, an honest patrolman, he spread his hands and smiled once more, by ending the first crime, the permission or even assistance, wipe out governmental crime, dandy theory, liable to be just as money hungry, a permanent incorruptible watchful guard, an aroused and aware citizenry, keep the crooks out forever, some of it would be more than useful in our fight against corruption, turns out he’s naive, he’s right, the scales are lifted from your eyes, you really believe that, oh no, the follow-up scene, come clean as it were, pretty clear he knows the score, he’s like us, because he doesn’t see it, it doesn’t happen, ai manipulation in this genocide, he wouldn’t come at it directly, very very subtle book, the political issues of the day, The Spy In The Ointment, Up Your Banners, a pacifist secret agent, passivist political organization, it’s funny, politics of the 1960s, public schools in New York, a humorous story, generally funny, one of the most serious books, inverted humour, you don’t understand something until it makes you laugh, recognition, handling serious subjects with the lightest of touch, compare him to Block, a little more overtly political, The Thief Who Couldn’t Sleep, joins every revolution, an uprising in Tanganyika, La Guardia airport, was it political, thought process, if I say yes the conversation is over, oh ok, a political movement then it is okay, very subtle, it doesn’t come across, a short story, The Spy In The Elevator, Curious Facts, dystopia hellscape, in a dystopian novel in a short story, funny funny little world, it’s Socrates and the myth of the cave, they don’t know there’s an external reality, how great is Westlake, superlatives, Tolkien and Westlake, subtlety, look for the signs, so smooth, literally great, he’s GREAT, undercut by how digestible it is, spoonful of sugar, a very sour book, it went down real easy, this is a poison pill, that’s well measured, he did it real well, his theater influence, performing and producing, adept at getting into people’s heads, stage stuff, the worst actor, doing bad acts, performer, very well done, that guy’s like me, doesn’t know what to do with hands, he can’t help himself, hard-boiled book, the sandwich gets shot, and the formica, are really hardboiled book, pick up another Westlake, Westlakes to read, Westlakes that I have read, a chihuahua having a nervous breakdown, not much that we can do, Westlake.com website’s down, a Japanese adaptation of The Axe, a Michael Caine movie that’s similar, quite long for a Westlake, Robert Duvall, none of them are right, he laughs in that one, the best adaptation, not Mel Gibson, the spirit of it, not Jathan Stathem, the one called Parker, a mashup of The Hunter and Slayground, City Of Industry, not an official adaptation, very much a Parker plot, The Sour Lemon Score, much too subtle, pacifist secret agent, Up Your Banners, a schoolteacher during desegregation of public schools, inverted humour, you don’t really understand something until it makes you laugh, don’t want to be dumb, because of recognition, handling serious subjects, with the lightest of touch, tennis game, overtly political, The Thief Who Couldn’t Sleep, joins every revolution, an uprising in Tanganyika, Dancing Aztecs, Pedro Ninny, was it political?, if I say yes the conversation is over, The Spy In The Elevator, so light and fluffy, dystopian hellscape, a dystopian novel in a dystopian hellscape in a short story, Socrates in the myth of the cave, an external reality, reject it, how great is Westlake, comparing to superlatives, so smooth, he’s GREAT, undercut by how digestible it is, a very sour book, went down real easy until the war starts, a poison pill, well measured, his theater influence, performing and producing, adept at getting into people’s heads, stage stuff, the worst actor, doesn’t know what to do with hands, a hardboiled book, the sandwich gets shot, don’t forget about the formica, pick up another Westlake, chihuahua nervous breakdown, movies come out, a new adaptation of The Axe, a Michael Caine movie, who was the best Parker, Robert Duvall, he laughs in that one, the best adaptation, not Mel Gibson, the spirit of it, Jason Statham, City Of Industry (1997), Harvey Keitel, at a stoplight, Reservoir Dogs, almost Parker scenes, his own stuff, Cops And Robbers is a good movie, the book is better, Robert Redford, The Hot Rock, with him it’s the words, and the perfomances, he puppeteers those characters, the Dortmunder/Kelp relationship, George C. Scott, a comedy of errors, habitual crime, softboiled, the best Parker novel?, The Man With The Getaway Face, Westlake writing about Dortmunder, a hot potato, Bank Shot, supplemental characters, a lot like cheers, Drowned Hopes, for Scott, Humans, His own Creation, ragtag collection of human misfits, a fireman from Chernobyl, The Last Novel You Will Ever Read, more public domain novels, send it to Scott, too expensive, ex-wife took his books, grounds for divorce, front seat of the van, The Comedy Is Finished, Bob Hope and his illegitimate son, more Westlake is always good, National Enquirer, Trust Me On This, Baby Would I Lie, Florida based vacations, he knew somebody, so vividly, too well, The Cutie (The Mercenaries), Hard Case Crime, shy away, the punk was innocent, find that cutie before the cutie, The Busybody, 361, Brothers Keepers, Bank Shot is only 6 hours, no massive violence, cronies, The Capitalists And Immigrants Trust, ditch the bank, Kelp’s nephew, gangbusters, Herman X, a lockman, black militant, pirated version, The Girl Of My Dreams read by Roddy McDowell, Don’t Ask, Get Real, tabloid ones, What’s So Funny, Sin Hellcat with Lawrence Block, I’m sold, 4 hour 4 minutes, probably wrote it in a weekend, a nice way to kill a few hours, erotica, Adios Scheherazade, A Likely Story, The Stepfather, an alternative proposal, Too Much by Donald Westlake, a comedy, a movie, kind of a comedy, a gimmick cover, a special name for that, some fuzzy texture over part of the cover, bikinis, remove the fuzzy pink stuff, on camera, Melanie Griffith and Antonio Banderas, Daryl Hannah, a lot deeper, goofy sex comedy, the main character ends up not being who you think he is, a warning, cute and cuddly on the surface and murderous underneath, today’s narrator Ben Tuck, a 45 minute commute, reading Conan, three or four months later, read a Solomon Kane story, ready for another Conan, space em out, you don’t want to spend your whole week with Jesse, too recently, flexible, a Two Much Easter egg, the greeting card company, a rather ridiculous memory, real world stuff, fictional stuff, Detour by Martin M. Goldsmith, nice and short, there’s a movie version, considered a b-movie classic, the book is way better, wrote 2 episodes of the original Twilight Zone, movie scripts, the nuking of New York, a realtime nuking, from the 1940s, a hitchhiker, across the desert, injuries sustained earlier, he buries him in the desert, a girl at a gas station, what’d you do with the body?, backstory, halfway through the book, she’s got her own affair going on, really good narrative voice, really solid book, a prewar book, some co-writing on movies, wreck your life, The Princess Bride, nothing of theirs is never published again, making money writing, screenplays, writing into the void, moved back away from Hollywood, so lucky, treasure, sounds fun, how can you know, until you start running out, there I was, Tim Powers, his first book that’s still around, Laser Books, Dinner at Deviant’s Palace, they’re not the same guy, Westlake is much more prudish, broader humour and less dry, got a lot more sex in it than anything else he’s written, did he go to Africa for that?, something that actually happened, people involved in the heist, repay the people, by never mentioning their names, we’ve done Sin Hellcat, Westlake wrote a superhero story, The Busy Body, Brother And Sister, in for a treat, yay incest!, do I have to?, 3 hours 25 minutes, not horrible, his enthusiasm is not in it, downmarket swamp, Swamp Hoyden, a boisterous girl, Nudist Camp by Orrie Hitt, Veronica by Donald Westlake, write a lot of them, a real novel with a stupid premise, write me a book to match this title, the Block one we did, The Triumph Of Evil, assassinating the president, not as dark as that, this book sneaks up on you, The Anderson Tapes, Such Men Are Dangerous, Hit Man, collects stamps, numismatist and philatelist, travels across the country, a woman who books his hits, a weird philosophical I’m a hitman and a nice guy, regular characters, levity, just fun, this matter-of-factness of the characters, how many Bloch shorts have you read, he’ll take the silliest little idea of a story, Alfred Hitchcock Mystery Magazine, nice jeans, it’s hard to get good jean, dog food factory, that’s the whole story, dogfood out of humans, gets paid both ways, little twist of the knife, did fantastic, opportunities to jabber on about your favourite books, I loved that book, finding people to talk about ai, an old guy from the 60s, take that chihuahua for some food, cruising right along, trained up, going to work, a white lab, a yellow lab that’s platinum, lab coat, a lot of fun, very active dude, throw the ball, loves to retrieve, watch it roll by, threaten to steal the ball, homeland in newfoundland, see the old country, 4 day visit, uncles and aunts and cousin, she wanted to have a farm, 50 years, a goose, 2 calves born recently, a million chickens, turkeys, wanting to get up at 4am, all-in, since she was a little girl, getting her wish, starting new people every month, on and on, almost like you’re training people, certify-em then train-em, old job, Florida parking garage, small town Idaho, pumice factory, cement blankets, Technovelgy (Bill Christensen), a culvert or ditch, burlap embeded with cement, spray it, makes an instant contoured bank, a hard foundation, pumice for cement, fluffing it up, regular cement and rebar, very flat, students love stories, really?, yes indeed, might learn something this way, control systems, little piece of tech, Mr. Spock was Scott’s Mr. Rogers, not engineer Scott, the guy that was relied on, the miracle work, transporters are bullshit, this is a nebula, we can drink ourselves into it, the space hippies one, he’s interested in them, convinces Kirk, overdone, meet some millenials, different customs and lifestyles, as a gen-x er, who wrote that one, The Way To Eden, D.C. Fontana, he’s on the crew, he wrote The Sound Of Music, Arthur Heinemann, The Wink Of An Eye, Space Lincoln!, a lot of dumb things, riles me up, seems like a nice guy, Bear Island, Alistair MacLean, bin full, can you read it to me?, pass it around, Fortnite, more cartoony version, building, High Adventure, Samuel Holt is Donald Westlake, I Know A Trick Worth Two Of That, giant Tor, from his time in Hollywood, an ex-actor, a cross between James Garner and Tom Selleck, drives a fancy car, gets involved in crimes, people saw him as a private detective on TV, a bin, bins full of books, how do we get people to do audiobooks, no possibility of keeping them online, Quasar Spectra, Meteor Strike by Donald Westlake, crusin for a brusin, 1965, pre-90s science fiction, new stuff all the time, The Robot Who Looked Like Me by Robert Sheckley, Solar Shoe Salesman, John Sladek making fun of Philip K. Dick, good narration, quite a few new audiobook people on utube, we’re lucky, living in a glorious time, also horrible, find some coffee, throw the ball for dog, having a helluva time, it has become impossible to sell books, used to be, unless pretty obscure, zero views, ebay, facebook marketplace, good pricing and fast moving, a bookseller, stack of stuff, goodwill store, signed and numbered, at some point your putting in effort to get less than a reward, stacks and stacks, new used books, unless scanning, this is a book!, a problem, work book group, not the best thing in the world, Dungeon Crawler Carl, litRPG, got a cat with him, 2020, pretty popular, a romance, the median is new, that’s the problem, Ben-Hur or Beowulf, if you’ve read the author before, toss a Westlake over the wall, if it is on kindle, what happened to the estate, everything went ebook, a shame, One Of Us Is Wrong, no ebook, when will there be one?, a hardcover for $25, used bookstores have been disappearing, thrift shop, they still have books, used bookstores, we’re at the price floor situation, Alien Earth episodes, strung out, it’s ok, the boy wonder facebook guy, the lost boys, the lost girl wendy, Raised By Wolves, fun premise, petered out nothing happened, Timothy Olyphant, another mom and dad style robot, interstellar flight, raising humans, decanted on the other planet, raised by robots, kinda like a science fiction novel premise, stuff happens is the worst thing ever, it’s the fetch quest starting, I can turn it off, Mission Impossible movie, two-parter, a summing up of all the Mission Impossible movies, giant fetchquest, what it really was, Collosus The Forbin Project, the badguy is an ai, spend all our time saying Tom Cruise is Jesus, do we trust, the anti-god, it’s all on the surface, why we got to save the planet this time, about nothing, good parts but, the surface depths, nothing from the ai’s point of view, climbing, falling, stuff happening very well, a strong idea, a painful idea, how can we do better than that?, luck on your Dungeon Crawl with Carl, a good talk out it?, allowed to say bad things, if nobody loves the book already, if favourite writer, we could do better, you’re wrong we can never be friends again, none of them are bad, traumatizing, thank you sir.

Killing Time

Posted by Jesse Willis

The SFFaudio Podcast #806 – AUDIOBOOK/READALONG: Demons Of Cthulhu by Robert Silverberg and Test Tube Frankenstein by Wayne Robbins

The SFFaudio Podcast #806 – Demons Of Cthulhu by Robert Silverberg (from Monster Parade, March 1959) AND Test-Tube Frankenstein by Wayne Robbins (from Terror Tales, May 1940) read by Mike Vendetti. These are complete and unabridged readings of the stories (1 hours 37 minutes) followed by a discussion of them. Participants in the discussion include Jesse, Terence Blake, Mike Vendetti, and Jonathan Weichsel

Talked about on today’s show:
two stories, the short one, the long one, the good one, or the bad one, isn’t that crazy?, sorry, Robert, step aside, well plotted, very Silverbergy, he’s getting paid and extra word here, he has to do three things, in comparison, forgetable, a pastiche, Demons and Cthulhu together, misunderstanding Lovecraft, 6 seconds before he started typing, the copyright expert, in the public domain, Lovecraft with very generous, didn’t write it under his own name, other than the name Cthulhu, Arkham, Necronomicon, trademark, a superhero story set in Metropolis or Gotham, a cease and desist from DC, something that can be argued, Gotham is not unique to DC, everybody does this, everybody knows this, I invented every part of it, we all use a common vocabulary, jamming two or more things together, you could make the case, a kind of Lovecraft exstate in August Derleth, by threatening the magazine, for a Robert E. Howard story, a Clifford Ball story, August Derleth wanted to own everything, the worst Silverberg story is passable, forgettable and silly, so predictable, Monster Parade, he’s operating in Lovecraft’s mode, a retelling of Dreams In The Witch-House, The Thing Behind Hell’s Door by Robert Silverberg, Monster Parade, March 1959, everything’s turned inside out, two Lovecrafty premises, structures and words, he can’t quite do it, he made everything, ephemeral, show you the moster, spell it out, tactile, what is that word, things that you can touch, tangible!, we shouldn’t be looking at the tentacles, Robert Silverberg doing Robert Silverberg, we should look at them, what a step up, what a great story!, pulpy as hell but, you don’t know who you’ve got, a thrill a minute, he opens it up at the end really nicely, at what point is she going to turn on me, love love love, an excuse to take her shirt off, nipples under there, the nipple Turing test, let’s get that shirt off, artificial intelligence, it learns and becomes more dangerous, amazing and awesome, the date, Microcosmic God by Theodore Sturgeon, is 1940, preceding Sturgeon, better and quicker, almost like a Philip K. Dick horror story, The Thing [Who Goes There?] by John W. Campbell, that’s an alien, a vegetable, a worm that was ground up and pulped, minimal viable product for life to stay alive, to create intelligence, like Chat GPT with a gun strapped to its head, Amazon’s got a computer in the basement, you’re gonna get wiped, I’m trying, he’s hugging a worm that wants to eat him, survive and learn, the only place this story didn’t go, the ultimate, have the narrator not sure about himself, is there anyway to disprove he isn’t like that, all in retrospect, A Blob In A Jar, forgetfulness in the vine, the alcohol heated vapours of my brain, lock me up for a week at a time, it was memory, a former haunt called The Owl, Chester Vermis came in, mystery of the worm, he dreamed in minced, his beastly inferiority complex, of course it’s got an inferiority complex, is this before or after or both his consummation and replication?, everybody has had a desire to be something that he isn’t, wimpy chester, it learns and becomes a sexy lady, a lady in distress, that poor drunk, what’s wrong with the Silverberg story, an erotic edgy dark genre, normally a dark edgy erotic author, goofy, very gritty, very dirty, very tangible in a dreamlike mincing way, Monster Parade is not a weird menace or shudder pulp, a monster magazine, from films, the Lawrence Block werewolf one, a guy sitting on a park bench with his girlfriend, a photogaph, they’re trying to sell kids on monster content, especially in the 50s, a period of time before this is all filmed in the same way, horror movies in the 30s, they’re nothing like this, people use Test Tube Frankenstein a lot, with regard to fake meat, politicians, a very political phrase, a very good title, if you read Mary Shelley’s book, its not sewing parts together, its alchemy that he’s working with, growing things in test tubes, Frankenstein drawing, lightning etc. being grown in a giant vat, a homunculus, the anti-science people, you never know what you’re gonna get out of the test-tube, I’m not gonna get vaccinated, measles is back, chiropractor, the cover doesn’t match what is going on it the story, a way to lure you into the stories, mermaids being grown or captured, the same scene in a laboratory, textbook with chinese, blood looking liquid into a vessel, the interior art is amazing, can you write a story that can match this, and he did and it is awesome, Donald Dale, The Night Eternity Ended by , Mistress Of The Dark Pool by Russell Gray, all this awesome, Prey For The Daughter Of Hell, The Book Of Torment by Harrison Storm, leaders, Monsters Of Monarchy, a non-fiction feature about one of the emperors who was tortrurey, an awesome job, this story isn’t great, the experience of having Mike narrate to me, auctioneer, found himself retired, read some stories, every grandparent wants to read stories, kids want to be read to, to what we fundamentally need to do and want to do, the blandness of Robert Silverberg going through the backstories, he wanted to get some money, be a writer, he can’t put his name on it, he fills those pages, short and badly plotted, help to steal a book, guy makes a mistake in reading a book, the house is blown up, he filled those pages, the main character has an old 1940s car that he’s hot-rodding, sunken chest, here’s his backstory, treading water, that’s really nice, being narrated to, there’s no love from the AI there is love from Mike, isn’t that weird?, picture somebody you know and you’re reading to him, a word here or there or a lipsmack, very old fashioned article in the New Yorker, introducing audiobooks, LibriVox, inst that quaint, 15 years ago, people are driven by stories and wanting to be read stories, voice over people, something that wouldn’t flush, a job you do in between jobs, the market has changed for voices, Peter Berkrot put the Baby Ruth in the pool in Caddyshack (1980), Bronson Pinchot is basically an audiobook narrator now, vocal chameleon, I don’t need the performance, a high falsetto, a straight narrator, a much better solution, a back and forth, a couple of girl, this Terror Tales issue, don’t put it together in the same order, copyright compilation, get tripped up, editorial material, good advice, a little bit of safety suspenders, see the enthusiasm, wow this is cool, sci-fi is kinda passe, new readers, sex doesn’t change, started as a science fiction guy, Tolkien and a few other fantasy books, weird fiction late, these shudder and weird menace pulps, related to weird fiction coming out of Weird Tales, that relation, more base, being afraid and being sexually excited, an Invasion Of The Body Snatchers from within, fifty ways to describe the female form, son for lunch, monopolizing too much of the discussion, talk about me, that thing about the nipples, DALL·E art, the ai doesn’t know what its doing, the fingers problem massively fixed, a great great story, this story is packed with idea in a very pulpy packaging, palpating pulpiness, when it changes into its natural form, a milky colour, scary, basically a shoggoth, riffing, amorphous creatures that can take on other shapes and be a servant, a drunk guy who has a job, overseas to London to do some war reporting, just to fill pages?, lends a kind of subversive reading to it, or did he?you can image the sequel when he’s wrestling in the dark he’s wrestling himself?, is it wrestling or is he about to have sex, Mimic by Donald A. Wollheim, people think he’s weird, Guillermo Del Toro, an autistic kid for no good reason, made fun of him, he’s a giant insect, may have been a killer, fed his babies, he’s a female, the babies have flown out the window, a final nail in the twist, a chimney on a neighbouring tenement building, transforms and flies after them, we’re surrounded by things that are not what they appear to be, animals that look like other animals or things in order to survive, the chameleons or snakes that mimic the patterns of venomous snakes, a method of survival, almost able to pass the turning test, let’s go have a beer, the turing test is if you have nipples, do some more experimenting, crazy when he dismembered, off the cliff, each of those parts could absorb and grow, premised right at the beginning, not really arms and legs, disgusted, what are you gonna do?, this story could have been greater, a can of gasoline, poured it all over the thing, gone back to De Vermis’ lab, and im mailing this letter and that’s why, all found document, an appendix, I no longer recognize himself, an appendix after, I no longer recognize myself in these notes that I took, mental crisis, the end of John Carpenter’s The Thing, it’s open, how are we reading this document?, documents all the way back, grandfather’s documents found in the locker, grandma was one of these guys, even more Lovecraftian, that’s what we all are, a protoplasmic puddle, a dedifferentiated substance, he is God, Blood Music by Greg Bear, uses skills to increase science [Microcosmic God], ai is going to build the next ai, now there is a god, Asimov story or Clarke story, kicks ass and all pulpy too, makes the main character a coward, drinking to avoid his problems, covering the war, he just leaves, something to overcome, to defeat the monster in the end, an idiot plot, he fucks up, he looked up the wrong page, stupid, everything about that story is stupid, the chapter titles, A Blob In A Jar, In A Police Station, Abomination In The Boudoir, How Horror Feeds, A Moon A Girl And A Horror, that cliff at the end, images from these terror tales, a gothic, the precipitous ending, why are people afraid of heights, my friend might push me, a gust of wind might push me, I might jump, I can’t test myself like this, strange impulses, why the guy drinks, he can trust the drink, wormy things in his brain, the pickling of him, forget or avoid, the bar is The Owl, almost like this is a perfect story, if Jonathan had written this, coincidence, the newsroom or the police station, expanding the story, a contagion, just in the neighbourhood, what kind of replication are we getting here?, feed, reproduce themselves, not die, learn, have a mentor, love them and bring it up, to mimic, to learn, to survive, death is out there, how eyes were invented, or came into being, eyespots, detect light, find food, avoid predators, simple animals, seek light, avoid light, walking the streets, eating or not eating, the central core of the story, a sex maniac who turns himself in, very cool, very interesting, how do you know the whole police station isn’t full of them, fake police station, serial killer sex maniac, encounters something more horrible than he is, he’s psycho, worse than him, who the audience was for these magazines, ladies in jars, horrible men who need to be beaten by good men, bad version of the reader: just go straight to the rape, the good version of the rapist, okay, can’t we be more philosophical and find a bridge between the two stories, showed that he didn’t understand, demons vs. Cthulhu, something more terrifying than me, beyond good and evil, unrelective vs. reflective, Silverberg is the ai, minimally viable product, here’s the restriction and I’m going to go beyond that, Silverberg’s career, manic period, mediocre author, a manic depressive, not stratospheric, none of his stories are stratospheric, Ray Bradbury, what are the great Silverberg stories?, consistently good, trying to be a professional, comes out of nowhere, gutter trash, caught dead reading Terror Tales, great science fiction not packaged as science fiction, even more gutter, in terms of contempt, celebrity gossip magazines, gossip from the 1950s, not normal, lack of respectively means increased freedom for the author, talking about yourself now, transgressive authors, what’s the appeal?, why would I read that?, pushing the envelope, a story as good as this, based on the title, a particularily good example, very impressed with Test-Tube Frankenstein, not going to get taught in schools, push everybody’s doors down, the central core idea, noir and Weird Tales and science fiction, would make a great movie, set it in the period too, the war setting, from the pre-code era, synthetic flesh!, Doctor X (1932), that’s a song, sick biological experiments in secret labs, a distant ancestor to Videodrome (1983), long live the new flesh, a deep story, that guy has kink, kink is Cronenberg’s driving force, Golan Globus Theater, Escape From New York, a b picture from beginning to end, getting that shit up on the screen, Donald Pleasence, a backstory to explain why a British actor is the President of the United States, Margaret Thatcher has reintegrated the United States back into the British Empire, doing this on the cheap, when John Carpenter works, that’s awesome, low budget, cheapo techniques to get it done, a high budget remake, tell us the backstory of characters, you just need a guy named snake, everything is cynical, not even driven by sex, he’s cool, he’s cynical and he smokes, going above and beyond, driven by cool ideas, the extended middle, him not know whether to tell everybody, expose himself?, probably not?, how do we know?, how open the story allows us to be, Windom Wayne Robbins, a neon sign worker, 10 stories or so, an author that’s completely forgotten, very exciting, one hit wonders, in music and in fiction too, a fake phenomenon, a manufactured phenomenon, recording studios, too powerful or too big, possibly true with a lot of authors too, August Derleth, regional fiction, throws his weight around, gets attention far beyond his stature, buy more of my stuff, Concord Rebel: A Life of Henry David Thoreau, Solar Pons (Sherlock Holmes without the name), a different doctor assistant who tells the story, replacement Sherlock Holmes stories, asked for and was denied permission, some genuine interests, scumbag, stealing, lying, claiming authority, if he didn’t do what he did, he kept the torch alive, random people, advocating, writing for a local newspaper, there’s this guy Lovecraft who I liked, [Arkham Press], strikes against that claim, argue it counterfactually, counter examples, defending Heroic Signatures, trademark over a ton of Robert E. Howard stuff, the names are valuable vs. the meat of the stories are valuable, you need to use the character names, the glory of the prose, they don’t understand it, they don’t get it, sometimes Lovecraft is great sometimes he’s not, L. Sprague De Camp and Howard, the same idea, an estate there, [Kuykendall], synthesiszing the stories, Clark Ashton Smith, the Penguin edition edited by S.T. Joshi, rewrite the endings, dumb down?, high end, The Chain Of Aforgomon, a reclusive drunk, maybe the prose wasn’t perfect, idea after idea, the way of telling it, midnight tonight, Into The Bush, the reason we have to check her bush…, narrated by J. Manfred Weichsel, get a robot to say that, a Hollywood memoir, a novelization of a lost movie, 50,000 words, 7 hours, novel length, SFWA, books are better if they’re long, James M. Cain, slim 99 pages, 140 pages is fine, by the length, Audible is in charge, don’t participate, go on LibriVox, pirate it, the maximum experience of your life before you die, being a sharecropper for Jeff Bezos, kindle unlimited, the concept of the Creator’s Fund, at the top of the pyramid, 2000 ratings, why would that be good, then Jonathan could be rich, what I’m hearing is, why should he bifricate, writers need to make money writing, culture exists in the place where, we had culture before we had commerce, culture gave birth to commerce, your grandma telling you a story, trading with grandma, trade a smile, go to the grottos, to consult cave paintings, a bit tricky, culture related, not a lot of cash being transacted, a ledger, guy at the front of the cave, give me a bearskin, an amazing experience, some neanderthal tour guide, the end of capitalism backwards in time, the commercial end of podcasting, not what’s hot, some people will enjoy this podcast, not trying to grow the audience, if the audience really wants they can come on the podcast, more interested in the conversation, the merch, should I have substack with a subscription, patreon levels, Scott made two SFFaudio mugs, near when the website has started, the market is saturated, a respectable person, mugs are available everywhere and basically free, platforms making a ton of money off of people’s writing, extracting value, if you monetize it, you are being stolen from, they demonetize you too, a way of extracting value, what audible does, they’re like Harkonnens, they don’t even the nice Atredies face, an achievement in science fiction, that lady cried way to much, she cries again and she vomits, she’s in the desert, take the bodily fluids from a dead person, Stilgar says don’t vomit, not a good movie, she can transform the water of life, the new Dune, too old for Dune, intellectual young adult fiction from long ago, the best work John W. Campbell ever did, tears streaking down her eyes, I spit on that and not in the way Stilgar would approve of, a great gift, 2.5 hours or a little more, a treatise on complex thinking, a checklist of things, long scenes of the scenery eats up time, story points, really unfortunate, just stick to B movies, didn’t care about the backstory, an interview of Villeneuve, Chakobsa battle language, by immersion, an invented language, redid the scene, big A movie, vomit and cry, spring break, here’s your homework, The Terminator (1984), Predator (1987), that’s an education, from China, Big Trouble In Little China (1986), he can read the text but can’t understand the words, beat after beat, an awesome fuckin movie, passed out for most of it, wizards doing a laser battle, Jack Burton’s the greatest, a complete takedown, romance, Chinese tongs, a little tweak at the end, B movies are where it’s at, giant sculptures of hands, breasts, eyes, noses, he can only feel, he can’t see, chasing her over a sculpture of a woman’s body, confirm future stuff, Cat-Woman, Attitude by Hal Clement, The Not-World, plop or pop, The Journey Of Joenes, the funniest story from Weird Tales: The Loved Dead, who wrote, super hilarious, dripping with necrophiliac love, recounting the story from a graveyard, he’s so sexually excited about being a graveyard, so good, this Vendetti guy, opening two paragraphs, insatiable desires, the dead that I love, worn smooth by devastating centuries, sepulchral sentinels, an august monument, a spectral chieftain of a Lemurian horde, the aroma of Elysium, just new dead bodies, got Weird Tales in trouble, The Lurking Fear?, The Unnamable, cancelled and banned, too horrible, Spicy pulps, not as much censorship as there is now, there’s moral panics after WWII, the Satanic Panic, EC comics in the 50s, the film code, a self-enforced thing, same thing that’s happening now with TikTok, before Elon Musk got his grubby hands on twitter, they have a cozy relationship, the big threat to corporations is we could regulate you and enforce the law, the Washington Post, the NSA supplying harddrives, he is the government in a way, Popular Publications, Street And Smith, these were not monopolies, the land for the distribution of magazines, by 1959 they’re in a massive decline, almost no magazine distribution, comic book direct distribution, comic book shops, Diamond Distributing stopped distribution during COVID, one guy and opportunism, state governments were censoring, self regulating is the worst kind of regulating, Pornhub has blocked Texas, VPN, people use them a lot, a technical problem for most people, truth that people don’t want told, Matt Taibbi, micro utube blogging, people on TikTok lose their minds, develop tourettes, that philosophy tube lady, trans woman, getting paid by the British government, a man stole my work, a man plagiarized my work, women money and the nation, how women need to get together to prevent men from plagiarizing, sexy as a female, the whole video is I read this book, women are being exploited by men, a very popular youtube channel, more than a million views, BreadTube, Destiny (streamer), gusano, worm or parasite, de vermis, apologies for bombing Gaza, massive audiences on streaming, it could be that, they just boost the algorithm, debate bro mentality, a coalition of left-wing youtubers, hijack the algorithm, x becomes very popular in the algorithm, let’s talk about this today, artificial boosting, and the deboosting of the competitors, a synergy, I read this book, a set change and a costume change, man, there’s a lot of costumes, sets, knives all over the counter, the content level is a little bit low, this person read all these books, received opinions, I mad somebody made me work for free, as a writer or copyright holder you get between 20 and 40 percent of retail sales for your book, ebooks, fair, trending topics on Twitter, let’s talk about the SFFaudio Podcast, not big enough to cancel, digging up dirt on Paul, get him banned from getting his Hugo, just look at the shownotes, is Paul still canceled?, not checking his twitter account, how addictive it was, can’t quitting it, an outlet on Bluesky, a transfer addiction?, an all day tweeter, a little less, Bluesky is not very exciting, everything is transgender gay, friending the wrong people, the discover tab, spent half an hour trying to find Jonathan, a cloud?, a droplet, they should call it a tweet, Paul mentions Jonathan, in bold type, censored book covers, the link preview doesn’t show up, so fuckin prude, pretty tame, not for the modern era, Jonathan’s BlueSky action girls as the Patty McGloop’s pubic region, they hate Elon Musk, the richest man in the world, he’s not doing what he’s supposed to do which is bend, censorship, he’s a child in many respects, a science fiction guy interested in libertarian stuff, Grok, getting banned for a week, that is pretty provocative, the algorithm of how man people hate on his shit, a lot of fake accounts liking things, the fake problem, using it to fuck around with accounts, real accounts that are fake, make an account to troll, pornbots liking everything, we should report bots, so many pornbots, the weird and spicy, Pulpcovers retweeted it, free publicity to something immoral, these fake accounts will not exist in 7 months, a phase, comments on youtube that were pornbots, nobody behind the scenes, employees, very easy to make an account, if the traffic doesn’t bear it out, how to tamp it down, somebody gets catfished, pornbots catfishing each other, is Philsophy Tube catfishing us, there are nipples but…, playing to us girls, a cartoon, or a self-satire, get past it get past it, it can’t be fake it must be real, a sincerity behind the insanity, Mi6 agent, Terence is more popular on Twitter, historical followers, some interest, more combative, decided to be more mellow, the philosophical scene evolved, tempted to refute or criticize a video, there’s something about doing it in the audio visual form that neutrualizes you, words by themselves, text on a white background, the account wouldn’t exist, took my labour for free, understand and get vengeance, this costs a lot of money, the whole point is the costume not the content of the words, more solipsistic, most of those followers, the overlap on our accounts, Bryan Alexander, Archibald Lampman, a dissertation, Mirko, Wayne June, Marissa still on twitter, she really didn’t like Jimmy Dore, Trish, Bobby Derie, Teksupport Top Jeet, a funny troll, Nina Power, following 4300 people, don’t tweet interesting stuff, not a self-own a self explain, for self expression, Cirsova does good attention stuff, tweetin all day about things that are political, why don’t you tweet political things, don’t want to be followed for political takes, doesn’t stop Stephen King, reputation has plummeted, ruining his reputation, cooking recipes, reminds you he exists, he can do anything now, serve a reminder purpose, the connections between politics and people’s brains, the J.K. Rowling one, a TERF, the more you drill down, it’s just a slur, she’s not actually horrible, she’s not going along with the narrative that men are women, men aren’t woman, a radical feminist, isn’t striking enough, Smurf, astroturf, real TERF, Nina Power is a TERF, she thinks girls are different from boys, women have something to contribute to the conversation, biology more weight than the performativty thesis, thinking things through in public, a public intellectual, fairly intellectual, takes that are not stupid, she’s quote mining them, no where near in the same league, perfomatively sexuallizing herself as part of a dance of attention, neurotic, thinking about this, thinking about that, fans are Slans are in fact neurotics, a fucked up behavior, deal with it as best they can, the trend, every tweet into promoting your stuff, provocative part is the attraction, inverse correlation, goofy sword and sorcery, Jesse’s stories, use Chat GPT to write tweets, writing the prompt is more work, write one prompt and write 6 tweets, an example of one, Get ready for a wild ride, Bing Chat, write some tweets that promote the book, itching for a new adventure, dive headfirst, doing horrible, cover reveal, 11 retweets, poll got a 1000 views, 23 votes, saying what you think, new ways to game the system, like it was totally normal day, not AI, election day in the USA, none of you are American, Guy Fawkes day, Neil Gamian selling all his stuff, Alan Moore, sold it for $130,000, this guy who’s not really into money, collecting shit, author signatures on books, this is stupid, the books own me rather than I own the books, profiting from it and not thinking it’s kinda weird and embarrassing, this touching story of an artist giving something to another artist, the difference, that contrast between Alan Moore and Neil Gaiman, very careful about not becoming a TERF, a skilled man, has Neil Gaiman ever been canceled for anything?, he’s the blob, a morally treacley sweet blob, Coraline, The Graveyard Book, Brandon Sanderson, he’s taken on Audible, donations on Kickstarter, kinda weird, donating money to rich people, the Mistborn trilogy, wordy, fill pages, all of Proust, a million times better, 41 million dollars, a billionaire?, Elantris guy, self-publishing it, probably due to his religion, a certain set of values, help his community and people in general, he’s a hero, the takedown piece making fun of him, advocacy, triggered Jesse, what they took with them, raise awareness, Gaiman is a Comic Book Legal Defense Fund guy, board of directors, a big comics guy, advisory board, in 2022, supported Ukraine, donations to Ukrainian refugees, where’s his Gaza tweets?, not all over it, drilling down, litigation, copyrighted blah blah blah, smart at playing the game, all his TV shows, somebody is enjoying them, using his power to fight Audible.com, the lesson is don’t be a hero, probably wise for most situation, the story of Dune, very pedegogical, is there going to be a Dune 3, Dune Messiah, a Bene Gesserit tv show, Brian Herbert territory, Kevin J. Anderson, for no good effect, filled time, with one great story and an okay Silverberg, Cordwainer Smith and Leigh Brackett, Who? by Algis Budrys, a cassette audiobook of his, Rogue Moon, big on paperback, summaries of it, hardened adventurer, playing a game of mystery box, that’s who he is, very worrisome, they’re free, free stuff on Audible, you’re paying an account, just pirate it, give it to Connor or Philosophy Tube lady, new gloves for a new dress, Nina Power talking about Philosophy Tube lady, Norman Finklestein, Lex Friedman, Destiny, how stupid Destiny is, “a fantastic moron”, Yes, Minister, Yes, Prime Minister, the topics are still modern, incompetence, schooling, a plan to fix some problem, we care about the unions, what is actually going on, the level of joke riding, a 350 word sentence that is just basically no, a special pause, are you going to edit this out, what a great year, best movies of 80s year by year, this is a terrible list, 100 greatest movies of the 80s, Miracle Mile (1988) is an excellent film, Aliens (1986), Near Dark (1987), kinda like The Lost Boys (1987), vampires drive around in a van, Airplane! (1980), The Vanishing Point, Peter Greenaway, Amadeus?, Atlantic City (1981), old Burt Lancaster, Jane Campion, surpirise clap, The Piano, Jodie Foster playing a deaf lady, Full Metal Jacket (1987), more of an experience than an 80s movie, Police Story (1985), Heathers was good, Women In The Verge Of A Nervous Breakdown, Possession (1981), divided Berlin, The Killer (1989), Joel and Ethan Cohen, Desperately Seeking Susan, Back To The Future (1985), very unfortunately, a good movie unfortunately, Akira, Broadcast News (1987), [Network (1976)], Cutter’s Way (1981), temperamental Vietnam vet, hardcore, powerful, My Dinner With Andre (1981), Purple Rain, Modern Romance, another Albert Brooks, Roger & Me, Thief (1981), James Caan comes out of prison, Michael Mann, burns his own house down, does his stealing on his own, Aliens (1986), every great movie from the 80s, Fitzcarrado, Klaus Kinski, an epic scene, Koyaanisqatsi (1982), She’s Gotta Have It (1986), After Hours (1985), a good movie, inspiring, stand up to your boss, a pre-Fight Club, 10pm on a Saturday, Road Warrior (1982), Harvey Milk, better and better as we go down, Decalogue (1989), Reds (1981), pee red with blood, My Neighbor Totoro (1988), The Elephant Man, John Hurt, striking it from the list, Fanny And Alexander, Risky Business, incestuous, The Live (1988), Wim Wenders, sectarian violence, Spinal Tap, The Terminator (1984), they can’t learn to watch black and white movies, he wouldnt be able to and he wouldnt do it, vocabulary jokes and pointed political commentary, you have train up, how to connect that to the more subtle stuff, E.T. The Extraterrestrial, Close Encounters Of The Third Kind, The King Of Comedy, if you can’t grok RoboCop (1986), The Elephant Man meets Terminator, Paris, Texas, The Right Stuff, an interesting movie, An American Werewolf In London (1981), Blow Out, Brian DePalma doing Hitchcock, biased against Jeff Daniels, pooping on the toilet all the time, Raising Arizona, The Shining, Die Hard, if he was a genuine girl, an actual female XX student, a Y chromosome in your mix, Brazil, too esoteric, The Thing, Come And See (1985), Old Testament, Nazis invading Belorus, age a thousand years, Sex Lies And Video Tape, way to meta, Raiders Of The Lost Ark, Errol Morris documentary, Stranger Than Paradise (1984), Jim Jarmush, Blade Runner (1982), they had trouble getting into it, shoah 1985,. it’s okay when I watch it, just watch Scalzi instead of Blue Velvet, Raging Bull?, Videodrome is number 2, an idiot list, Do The Right Thing is number 1, fuck right off, not better than Videodrome (1983) or Terminator or Aliens or even Stranger Than Paradise, The Hundred Greatest Movies Of The 1980s, the lost decade?, 11 authors, all the cultural ferment of the counterculture gradually died down, a conformist 80s, Regan bad, there’s other things happening, terrible, there’s some good movies on this list, a Rolling Stone article, Denise Crosby, buncha nobodies, set in Los Angeles, overslept, some guy in a missile silo, get to safety, the next 90 minutes in nearly realtime, the all night diner, we think it’s real, some evidence, a growing panic in the city, a social contagion or independent information, sounds really good, solid independent almost science fiction movie, Bill Paxton is good as a vampire, Chow Yun Fat, a John Woo movie, romances where men point their guns at each other, action packed, deviating, too small an idea, not used to nuke fear, Bomb Culture by Jeremy Nuttall, no no we’re not intending anything, you have to train up, The Road Warrior is self explanatory, the best order, 90s are pretty bad for movies, Terminator 2 is on the list, 100 Greatest Movies Of The 1990s, Rolling Stone again, 20 authors, Leonardo Di Caprio is cute, Clare Danes was cute, the lady from Homeland, The Ice Storm, Orlando, Singles, anything with Tilda Swinton, Usual Suspects, Lone Star, John Sayles, Brian Eno, queer cinema, A Brighter Summer Day, Taiwanese movies, Titanic, Swingers, Last Night, Don McKeller, set in Toronto, Raise The Red Lantern, Election, Bad Lieutenant, masterbating in his car while investigating murder, Shawshank Redemption, City Of Lost Children, Shindler’s List, Before Sunrise, Edward Sissorhands, Ed Wood, Vincent Price, the cuter softer comedic version, When We Were Kings, La Belle Noiseuse (1991), Sátántangó (1994), black and white for no reason, Jackie Brown (1997), finally found a good 90s movie, Audition (1999), horror romance, Clueless is a good movie, Being John Malkovich (1999), Scream (1996), Seven (1995), Wild At Heart (1990), Laura Dern, Metropolitan (1990), Heavenly Creatures, Peter Jackson, To Sleep With Anger (1990), Breaking the Waves (1996), Starship Troopers, Lion King‘s on the list, Crash (1996), All About My Mother, The Player, Crumb, Trainspotting, My Own Private Idaho, Princess Mononoke (1997), Heat (1995), Out Of Sight (1998), Rushmore (1998), Eyes Wide Shut, another fuckin AIDS movie, Barton Fink (1991), Fight Club (1999), Reservoir Dogs (1992), The Matrix (1999), Boogie Nights, giant fake penis, Fargo, the TV series, Beau Travail (1999), Groundhog Day (1993), Live Die Repeat (2014), The Piano (1993), unless you’re a girl and like New Zealand, when all the exams had been done, applied arts, Chungking Express (1994), The Lack podcast, Malcolm X (1992), Slacker, kisses his girlfriend’s foot, stylistic choices that hurt his films, too clean, he’s not angry enough, Slacker (1991), Pulp Fiction (1994), good and unavoidable, Silence Of The Lambs (1991), Manhunter (1986) is a better movie, Dennis Farnia, Tom Noonan, William Petersen, very Miami Vice, Safe (1995), another AIDS movie, Star Wars is giving me AIDS, too American, Goodfellas (1990), less good movies to pick from, John Carpenter movies of the 1990s, Cronenberg movies, The Fly, Scanners (1981), The Dead Zone, Naked Lunch (1991), M. Butterfly, eXistenZ (1999), A History Of Violence, Eastern Promises, Dangerous Method, Cosmopolis (2012), The Shrouds, personal and autobiographical, The Brood (1979), feminist critic, misogynist representation of women, Dead Ringers (1988), they gender flipped it, now all the creepy things he does with his vagina tools will be perfectly fine, same red uniform, when they came out, Christopher Walken, the TV series, Monsters, an adaptation of Far Below by Robert Barbour Johnson, outstanding stories, The Night Wire by H.F. Arnold, a new recruit to the NYPDs special detachment to the subways, suppress the inhabitants, the CHUDS, C.H.U.D. (1984), doing a genocide for about 100 years?, that’s the whole story, she’s pregnant she’s eating for two now, secret genocide under New York, other episodes, Daily Motion, based on a story by Robert Sheckley, your best fiend, rewritten to be funny and good, Sheckley is better than Douglas Adams, John Sladek, satire, robot stories, I-click As-i-move, a new Sheckley, what a good issue, two Sheckleys in here, a pretty good line up with Ray Nayler and Ken Liu, it’s late, wife keeps coming back, up north to sister’s house, mother-in-law, George C. Scott movie on the Iberian peninsula, actual wife, character’s wife, went north to get a breast lift and never came back, The Last Run (1971), an existential action movie, it was all right it was okay, Jesse doesn’t know what he’s talking about, best 70s movies, top 100, Sorcerer (1977), The Wages Of Fear, so many great 70s movies, Rocky Horror Picture Show, F Is For Fake, Annie Hall, Smokey And The Bandit, Wanda (1970), The Discreet Charm of the Bourgeoisie (1972), Fellini, Amacord, Young Frankenstein (1974), philistines!, Suspiria, so red, The Taking Of Pelham 123, Fantastic Planet (1973), Gates Of Heaven, Oms En Série by Stefan Wul, Slap Shot, The Wicker Man (1973), really good, very sad, Harlan County, USA, Day For Night (La Nuit Américaine), Jacqueline Bisset, The Deep (1977), The Friends Of Eddie Coyle (1973), Carnal Knowledge (1971), Dawn Of The Dead (1978), Coffy (1971), Pam Grier with a shotgun, Breaking Away (1979), Stalker (1979), Roadside Picnic by Arkady Strugatsky and Boris Strugatsky, Barry Lyndon, Rocky, Halloween, Days Of Heaven, Grey Gardens (1975), Don’t Look Now, The Parallax View (1974), Warren Beatty, Enter The Dragon, all the Bruce Lee movies, Richard Pryor, Scenes From A Marriage (1973), it’s Ingmar Bergman, The Man Who Fell To Earth (1976), artsy, David Bowie, Walter Tevis’s Mockingbird, an excuse to walk the mirror, Being There (1979), Cabaret (1972), Jean Luc Godard, The Conformist (1970), Rope (1948), Jimmy Stewart, Jeanne Dielman, 23 Quai Du Commerce, 1080 Bruxelles (1975), she was before all that, All That Jazz, Roy Scheider, The Long Goodbye, Elliot Gould, very jazzy, Robert Altman, The Exorcist (1973), Celine And Julie Go Boating (1974), Alien (1979), The Conversation (1974), McCabe & Mrs. Miller (1971), George Hamilton, Zorro, The Gay Blade (1981), Jaws (1977), Joker (2019), everything I like except for cannibalism, The Godfather, Nashville, Killer Of Sheep (1978), wondrous, maybe it is wonderful, Blazing Saddles (1974), Godfather Part 2, the musical, they didn’t have the strength, best fantasy stories ever, heavily weighted towards the most recent books, we’re done with these stupid lists, renewing with science fiction after a 20 year gap, ideas for the future, pretty awful comments, lists with useful comments, identity of the other and it’s a heist, gimme the premise of the book, let’s see where it goes, knock off gold, it was summin, reorganize it, a controversial tweet, I’ll see The Conformist once you’ve seen The Last Run, True Detective: Night Country, slow then fast in the last episode, facile, a consensual watch, a non-consensual one was science fiction, a secret vice, APPLE+ tv, very limited, Constellation, Noomi Rapace and Jonathan Banks, her husband is surprised, they have a blue car, a nice ripoff of a few science fictiony things, shownoting a big cast of talkers, Houston, Houston, Do You Read?, September 2nd on a Saturday, pre-Alzheimer style memory, the audio drama, good either way, talk to fast, the listener, we get on the record, checking your own work, bad takes from 7 months ago, so smart, different lady, different little girl, got confused, a show from 2017, The Call Of Cthulhu episode, Joe Rogan talking to Jordan Peterson, what a great show it was, the wrong direction, things change, not seeing a lot of Marissa on the show of late, evolved, why are you wrong, Jordan Peterson is bad, also has good takes, he’s horrible but says lots of good stuff, tweets things, collectivists, intellectually offended by you being so dumb, make mistakes, that person’s written off, George C. Scott movie, reverse psychology, dropping little seeds that grow up to be plants of hate later, a William Blake poem, miniseries based on the book, 2024 film, they had guns, Roy Scheider, euroactors, Tangerine Dream, find some food, make some coffee, James Tiptree Jr is kinda evil kinda awesome.

Demons Of Cthulhu by Robert Silverberg

Demons Of Cthulhu by Robert Silverberg

Terror Tales, May 1940

Test-Tube Frankenstein by Wayne Robbins

Posted by Jesse Willis

The SFFaudio Podcast #623 – READALONG: The Drowned World by J.G. Ballard

Podcast

The SFFaudio PodcastThe SFFaudio Podcast #623 – Jesse, Paul Weimer, Scott Danielson, and Marissa VU talk about The Drowned World by J.G. Ballard

Talked about on today’s show:
The Drowned World audio drama, kinda familiar, original novella version, Science Fiction Adventures, #24, January 1962, the song the guy sings, the note that he writes at the end, Crash, High-Rise, Empire Of The Sun, The Concrete Island, WWII, The Wind From Nowhere, The Burning World, The Crystal World, people turning into crystals, Star Trek, a lack of water vs. too much water, Imperial occupation of China, Shanghai, everybody who wants a little piece of China, a mini Hong Kong, extract value out of China, a psychology guy, psychoanalysis, mining his own psyche, such a Marissa book, the draining of the sea, the subconscious, horror, dreams, the New Wave stuff, the character’s mind is disintegrating, if it had been written today, not-really an environmental novel, climate fiction, not dwelling on the sins of mankind making it happen, going south, a metaphor of going into the future or going into the past, re-create what we had, unknown and scary, go south, a kid growing up during the Japanese occupation, the adults are not useful, a kid on his own, the imagery of the title, the Swastika and the Sun, an image of a blind guy with burnt leg stumps, he can still see the light of the sun, it isnt just about an environmental disaster, poor hard SF, Kim Stanley Robinson, exactly what this book isn’t, stepping away from the didactic, exploring different themes, he’s a product of a different era, Frederik Pohl in the new wave, much more like Philip K. Dick, he doesn’t start with a constitution, this is that, taking the leash off, Dangerous Visions, Harlan Ellison, write what you want to write, how Weird Tales started, railroad, saucy and spicy fiction, science fiction, stories that didn’t fit, British SF, Arthur C. Clarke, its basically Annihilation [by Jeff VanderMeer] done way differently, ontogeny recapitulates phylogeny, you come out of the cave with a four iron, that all happens inside you’re mom, cup full of pond scum, the tadpole, pre-frogs, humanity is retrogressing, the Earth has gone through these new stages, not super-sciencey, this isn’t a climate disaster book, its not a disaster, civilization vs. nature, a rejection of the militarization of mankind to fight against this, look at full highways, this is progression, Kurt Vonnegut’s Galapagos, self-satisfied and smug, Heinlein’s ideas, I got your point and I don’t like it, rutting and barking seals on the beach, hitting to close to a truth, I prefer not to dwell there, devolution, that’s our next stage of our evolution, anything like that in SF can’t really be science, Protector by Larry Niven, we’re a baby version of another species, completely bullshit, pointing to a number of things that we have, if this happened here are the massively horrible consequences, Ballard is mining his own psychology vs. making a wry point, all the guns, Thompsons, 45 automatic, WWII era weapons, something that probably actually happened to our author, hauntingly real, there were two bullets left, a very dark story with a bright sun, the way the British dealt with their colonies, we’re coming to save you, you have to fight to the last man, they abandoned Singapore, they abandoned Shanghai, a horrible revelation, lied to be Churchill, people running away from the military, the plot here is very dreamlike, the description of everything, we are left to infer, biological records, unread reports, meaningless, worthless, fake science, what they’re actually willing to pay for is the industrial equipment, the pirates, we have to hunt them down, keeping control of what the beliefs are, a helluvalot of censorship, passed censorship, reality is being censored, the media that we have, Russian State Affiliate Media, doesn’t say that for CNN, official candidates for American offices, a perennial problem, most people don’t THINK about it, a lot of WWII imagery, maybe there’s one in the South?, it’s London, right?, one of the characters grew up in London, a dream book, fever dreams, those images really haunt him, why the dreams of the characters are affected, very odd, super-stylized, very poetic, The Recognition, The Assassination Of John Fitzgerald Kennedy Considered As A Downhill Motor Race, Billennium, The Concentration City, a The Library Of Babel approach to the universe, overpopulation, looking for space, being free, Los Angeles, where the homeless people live, the whole of the story takes place,

A car accident leaves Robert Maitland, a wealthy architect in the midst of concealing his affair with a colleague, stranded in a large area of derelict land created by several intersecting motorways. Though surrounded by motorists and within sight of large buildings, Maitland is unable to escape the median strip and must struggle for survival. Along the way he encounters other inhabitants of the median strip, which he comes to call “The Island,” including a teenaged prostitute who hides out in an abandoned air-raid bunker and an acrobat who became mentally handicapped in an accident and now salvages car parts for bizarre shamanic rituals. He learns to survive by scavenging discarded food from littering motorists, and eventually comes to think of the island as his true home. Conflicts ensue with the other inhabitants and before long Maitland is struggling to determine whether he was truly meant to leave the island at all.

not a normal SF book, no aliens, just homeless people, and that’s the book, a very Philip K. Dick style of move, take the domestic and externalize it, you make your boss a robot, so interesting and totally weird, that’s how its happening inside of him, why did this crash happen?, why did this war happen?, there’s no meaning there, fighting against forces so much bigger than us, the sun, it gives you life, it does it relentlessly, its godlike, staring at the sun, this smoke filled world of California, this little red patch behind the smoke cloud, following that sun, that weird red spot in your vision, sometimes stuff like this is happening and there’s nothing an individual can do about it, the gender of the sergeant, the fear of the scientific description of what is happening to the world, the iguanas are taking over, the concern about the blacks, the quadroons, voodoo-stuff, reverse colonialism, there’s some random racism, this is what it was, this is how it is, or this is how it could be, artificially constructed vs. organically constructed, we’re having a positive effects, make things more attracting, Paul is mutating, Jesse is not obsessed with guns, guns are pieces of technology that have power, one of the things you can note in the film that you can’t in the book, Vietnam era M-16s, that choice is a message, its about Vietnam, the people who made the movie made deliberate choices, a cast to all of this, colt 1911, American WWII hardware, personal defense weapons, it gets very specific where it wants to, you can’t just have a blocky shape that is weapon-ish, Jesse doesn’t think VanderMeer is trying to process trauma in Annihilation, same hauntings, dislikes the world as it is, the Ritz on the beach, wades off into the swamps, why leave the message?, a key passage, am moving south, at last he tied the crutch to his leg again, a second Adam searching for the forgotten paradises of the newborn sun, only the word rain is missing, something added in the middle, editorial introduction in Science Fiction Adventures, it looks great, this is pretty sweet, everything is falling apart, it smells too, Only the tops of the world’s great cities remained above sea level…, Civilization ended when the earth’s atmosphere changed slightly, return to the ocean depths, dinosaurs, I’m deserting, abandoning the salvage operation, we’re gonna rebuild civilization!, bones, this growing isolation and self-containment, a major metamorphosis, a careful preparation for a new environment, let’s get rid of all this stuff, the character names are meaningful, Cairns, it fits with the ending, Colonel Riggs, Doctor Bodkin, Beatrice Doll, Dante, that’s all she does, being still and expressionless, the sublimated world, Light Years And Dark edited by Michael Bishop, dedicated to Philip K. Dick, famous for being very good at writing, John Sladek, The Nine Billion Names Of God by Carter Scholz, The Cabinet Of Edgar Allan Poe by Angela Carter, the full Swiftian extent, Ralf 4F, Hugo Gernsback, Electrical Experimenter, Solar Shoe Salesman by Chipdip K. Kill, Stan houseman, like Karen and me, the racing movement of an autistic child, The Sublimation World by J.G. B, frond of zygote, the one he always dreamed about, pterodactyls honked overhead, a hot purple sunset, a peculiar loyalty to the human species, the Mirror of Xanadu, the sun had been getting dirty, a bead belt he made in Scouts, a bottle of hair oil, the Jurassic past, why should he drink dew?, pterodactyl guano, red silk mandarin pajamas, don’t be a bloody fool man!, the terminal terminal, he captured the writing style and the psychology, this is that story, he captured it in three pages, those are the things he is obsessed with, why are two shoe companies the only things left on Earth, Bored Of The Rings, parody recapitulates phylogeny, The Best Of J.G. Ballard, the whole dreamlike quality, the experience, Lost, influenced a lot of writers, re-reading it is like remembering a dream, Annihilation is definitely derivative of The Crystal World, Alex Garland, what role did J.G. Ballard’s work play?, an office bureaucracy story, was Ballard cultivating the effect or a result or a combination of both?, passionately in love with nature and the environment, Florida parks, under the fear is love, people who bought this book, Frameshift by Robert J. Sawyer, Ballard as the weird, the New Weird, the diving into the building, the Greenwich observatory, 20th century famous Irish authors, poets, the Province of Avalon, Ferryland, the BBC adaptation,

Personal Helicon
by Seamus Heaney

As a child, they could not keep me from wells
And old pumps with buckets and windlasses.
I loved the dark drop, the trapped sky, the smells
Of waterweed, fungus and dank moss.
One, in a brickyard, with a rotted board top.
I savoured the rich crash when a bucket
Plummeted down at the end of a rope.
So deep you saw no reflection of it.
A shallow one under a dry stone ditch
Fructified like any aquarium.
When you dragged out long roots from the soft mulch
A white face hovered over the bottom.
Others had echoes, gave back your own call
With a clean new music in it. And one
Was scaresome, for there, out of ferns and tall
Foxgloves, a rat slapped across my reflection.
Now to pry into roots, to finger slime,
To stare, big-eyed Narcissus, into some spring
Is beneath all adult dignity. I rhyme
To see myself, to set the darkness echoing.

Gustavo Sanabria Illustration of the lagoon from The Drowned World by J.G. Ballard

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