The SFFaudio Podcast #859 – The Eternal Savage by Edgar Rice Burroughs, (7 hours 7 minutes) read by Mark Nelson for LibriVox, followed by a discussion of both. Participants in the discussion include Jesse and Will Emmons
Talked about on today’s show:
Eternal Lover, Eternal Savage, one of the Barney of something books, the second half Sweetheart Primeval, Barney Custer of Beatrice, a weird publication history, 1915, August 1915, The Mad King, separated, connected, The Mad King, Alex (pulpcovers), also a Tarzan book, written in 1914, Tarzan to come, Lord Greystoke, he’s in the book, the host for Barney and his sister Victoria, doesn’t say anything, an impression of what he would have said, in the room earlier, contractually obligated, I’ll stand there but, a weird stand-in, an easter egg, no strong reason for it to be there, also a book I wrote, you are aware of, Burroughsiana, a weird thing, stuff to think about, Nu is different than Tarzan, a red herring, multi-media universe, all the crossovers, the Burroughs Estate, the Pellucidar series, his own Alan Moore thing, League of Extraordinary Burroughsians, Edgar Rice Burroughs Inc., re-issue in an Ace-Double style with Cave Girl on the other side, big series, a mistake, make a lot of money doing it, he was good at doing that, part of a series but not really, stands-alone kind of, more prominent in, Nu Nu, Nu fitz Nu, having a mating on the nu moon, gotta get your cycles started to pump out some babies, baby, what’s going on with this book, legit confused, what’s going on, all explained in the end, what we actually have here, two books here, one isn’t fully realized, the narrative about Nu’s journey to the 20th century, cut-short, what happens at the very very end of this book, new timeline, last 4 paragraphs, a sudden halt, nothing more to be seen, crumbling skeleton, stone tipped spear, stone knife, stone axe, look!, feeble flame, the grinning skull of a great cat, 18inch curved fangs, Oo!, for his Natul for me, a really good ending, okay, more than 25 by Burroughs, he pointed out something, feel it, feel kinda dumb, they’re always the goddamn same, meet cute, girl gets kidnapped, happens twice in this book, in every Burroughs, really into kidnapping, the reason he’s into that, a big booklength book, he needs to fill pages, a science fiction story, an adventure story, the Encino Man, a white nigger?, not more that 17 times, he’s called that, this means that everybody around him is racist, not real dependable, when all the servants fled, a laybout asshole, using the n-word, what is lie?, so good, really fun, interrogates the story of what we hear about racist, more racist, Robert E. Howard, The Last White Man, bad on a number of levels, the manly exemplar, Barney is a good brother, Lord Greystoke is a nice host, Nu son of Nu, an innocent abroad, a super-muscular man like Tarzan used to be, incredibly muscular, intense, contrasted and compared, they never wrestle, he puts on Lord Greystoke’s clothes, a little too small for him, a direct comparison, take it a little bit deeper, Solomon Kane, the white savage, what he’s like, white savage vs. Tarzan, in this life, acculturated to the stone age, a ranch in Nebraska, it becomes a comedy after a certain point, learns horse-breaking, another kidnapping, a comedy, a Savage who becomes civilized, he was an English Lord, he learned to read, inherent, is even homo sapiens, bit the guy’s neck out, direct message, state tv in Sweden SVT, here are the first swedes, they’re all black, kind of a point, why are all the cavemen white?, what period is this set, he’s from the Niocene, the only thing that comes up is this book, eras, Pleistocene, smilodon and pterodactyls, a tiger in Africa, no homework, very pure for that reason, is this science fiction?, a conversation on twitter, he’s an unfrozen caveman, frozen in a cave somehow, I’m worried about earthquakes, mice and earthquakes, our guy gets trapped with the head of a smilodon, by suspended animation, Heinlein trick in The Door Into Summer, the gases that came in and froze him, a very popular one, 19th century novels, News From Nowhere, Just Imagine (1930), The Marching Morons, wakes up in the future, a Stanley Weinbaum novel, a ranch in Africa, this is my destiny, shot in the head, learns languages, kidnapped by the arabs, arabs and white slavery, super-not Christian, compared to Howard, here’s how I’d have Christ do it, angry about being nailed to a cross, nailing them to a cross!, cave man monogamy, vs. the arabs, sold into a harem, for a sultan, interestingly contrasted, why it is not science fiction, a new kidnapping scenario, yoink!, the girl’s gone, this other girl, infanticide really bad, suicide, stabs herself and jumps off a cliff, used to sudden death, reading any more Burroughs, he does it well, not edified by any of this, because it is old, modelling his mind, got it now, more cavemany, hadn’t figured out grammar yet, moved to Spain, attempt to prove the unprovable about human nature, you and I today, made of wholecloth, no substance to it, a multi-decade mission to get inside the mind of Edgar Rice Burroughs, really against rape, the baby will be uglier, the boat people, hunters are noble, cowskins, they make their caves, seems suspicious to me, superior technology, the whims of nature, what we are supposed to conclude, chivalrous, kidnapped his girlfriend from the past, unfrozen caveman I love you, the man of my dreams, dogs on his side, let’s go after unfrozen now escaped cave man, tear out his throat, cut back to her waking up from a 3 minute coma, made a new timeline, trapped in a cave, the worst thing that can ever possibly happen, transmigration to a past life, Phra The Phoenician, She, all a dream, see the skeleton of a guy, our love from past ages, you didn’t hallucinate the first half of the book, hallucinate the last half of the book, work for hire, where you’re messing up, Victoria goes back to the Niocene, retain her 20th century consciousness more, she’s not herself, flashes she was just in the 20th century, that would make the book awesome, he’s the fish in his water again, how to re-integrate it at the end, the upshot of the new timeline, the previous timeline, suspended animation, not able to meet your soulmate, no genetic connection, Deep Space 9, the Tribbles episode, Bashir and O’Brien are in the elevator, you’re new here, are you a doctor, giving him the wink, gloms on to her name, his great grandmother, otherwise he won’t exist, Time Rider (1982), Edward Page Mitchell, The Clock That Went Backward, the soul transference, Nu always looks like a caveman, same body, barrettes and lipstick and earrings not made of bones, messier hair, bikini made of fur, speak the same language of monkeys, his theory of past lives and the eternal lover, all of Poe, The Raven, is their love so great that it transcends time, Somewhere In Time (1980), they never have sex, except in the fake timeline, maybe had sex with him in her past?, hit on the head, past life remembrance, die in an earthquake, he really didn’t think this through, not a theory of past lives, this is not science fiction, undercooked fantasy, adventure fiction, a terrible genre, Raiders Of The Lost Ark (1981), why?, The High Road To China (1983), the answer is it has the supernatural stuff on top of the period setting, god literally exists and doesn’t like Nazis, the power of the contents of the Ark of the Covenant, don’t apply the ritual properly, not supposed to look at god, he went to Sunday school, what the Nazis want, other adventure stories, ancient Egypt, the power of god in this bucket, a burned hand, do the same thing, it’s got everything, same with Star Wars (1977), Luke Burrage argued it was science fiction, new technology was the Death Star, Star Destroyers and Death Stars, sabers are curved, all undercooked, all works for a child, this all works if you wanna pass some time and have some fun, sad story, it could be, rewrite it for him, cohere a little better, talking to the monkeys, me I’m friends of the monkeys, all the other Tarzan, in some respects, the species that raises Tarzan, not gorillas, talks to lions, Elephants, mean things, vocab is low, elephants are very sophisticated, more Mars books, the surgery one The Mastermind Of Mars, medical science fiction, medical adventure, Conan with his shirt off, standing on a pile of bones, not what the stories are like, one narrow aspect of it, Burroughs construction of these stories, strawman characters, a long tradition, Heinlein doing it, if we have good ideas, if you don’t have good ideas, ambiguous characters, helps Nu get out of bondage, I’m going to kill this baby, should I kill this baby, I wanna kill this baby, ladies driving their kid into the lake, minimize this, invest a lot in our offspring, 18 years, when your parents are no longer involved, kids were getting married and getting jobs at much younger ages, childhood is forever, that is odd, something to look at, be done with the child after 5 seconds, he can just fuck off, the baby literally will die without the mom, cats and dogs, lick up the poop, we have hands, we’re more like birds, or bears or elk, all about the nuclear family, how clams work, the dad is like a donor, goes to get shot, sport, food, most hunters are eating their meat these days, he hunts for food, the head is so he can marry her, in the father’s eyes, in her eyes, her behavior is pretty weird, not fleshed out, Victoria Custer, Nah-tool, this cave man is too horny, not that interesting, Victoria is an adult, how old are these characters?, 100,000 and 16 years old, not a cave-boy, much funnier, a pretty good movie, cave man comedies, lends itself to comedy, the concept, plot points, cave man pocket, 3 rocks to by an Arizona iced tea, why do people like it?, it hasn’t changed in price, its not from Arizona, it’s from New York, Arizona looking, the owner’s wife, a special half ice-tea half lemonade, Arnold Palmer, made it up, licensed him, a little bitterness, something mixed with lemonade, a shandy, if you’re into poison, it was okay, a podcaster recording them, what Burroughs was up to, Under The Moons Of Mars, Argosy and All-Story, a better rot writer, massive life experience, running around writing kidnapping plots, kiss each other, the women have eggs on Mars, the best setting to make the argument, so not science fiction, rockets were a thought in people’s heads, he didn’t have a rocket do it, the Martians in The War Of The Worlds, shot out of a cannon, space travel, chose not to do that, more novel, 4 arm green aliens, red indians that are not indians, colour interested, white apes, there’s stuff there, refreshing to talk to Jesse about Burroughs, deep in their guts, as a child, as an adult, Pirates Of Venus, a kidnapping plot with airships, tunnels, horsemen on the Moon, The Moon Maid, The First Men In The Moon by H.G. Wells, hefty intellectual, a comedy, a business man, giant history of humankind and everything, the original serialzed version in a magazine style on the newsstands, hot chocolate on the back, the formation of the Earth, up to Caesar, not interested in it, not writing the same kind of stuff, war correspondent during WWII, Damien Walter podcast, Feral Historian, The Dispossessed, with Evan, killed him and buried him, keep his bones in a cave, all those we’ve lost, when you read H.G. Wells, even when he’s not writing actual science fiction, not trying to ingratiate, The Island Of Doctor Moreau, a slice of H.G. Wells, him doing Jules Verne, on a spectrum where authors are, where Larry Niven is, The Cold Equations, floppy saggy science fiction, he’s juggling but they’re not hard batons, they’re bags full of sand, his stuff is weightier, communism bad, China is bad, a book which engages with ideas, conked on the head, dream books back to back, Robert E. Howard would have been on Instagram and lifting, suicidal ideation, posted videos of himself punching a side of beef, center of attention, businessman, cozying up to Trump sort of thing, spiritual affinity, real estate developers, sea to lake, orange man neutral, what his retreat is named, looks like it is in Florida, mystique, his grandson, Burroughs believed that all of the stories he wrote were ultimately true, that’s Heinlein too, gets that way at the end, mostly known as a novelist, The Pursuit Of The Pankera, honky, chonky, The Number Of The Beast, diary entries, Hilda Corners, the Barsoom novels, very Heinleinian thing to do, n-dimensional space, intimate tango, a space machine, alternate dimensions, 666, a googleplex or more of parallel universes, Oz, literary places, quasi-public domain literary places, a beleif that’s in your head even if it is only transitory, our worlds, unlike myna birds and cave sloths, an autists, a creed, never learned to talk, talking a vow of autism, a real world, people with autism, folksy, take the article off, persons of the semitic creed, we construct our worlds out of words, some penetration, very unusual, add it to your vocabulary, use it with your friend Will, learn vocab words, if you don’t control the vocab words they control you, you need to know, the manifold is broken, a barrier between the universe, find out what lies are, Lord Greystoke, I have red hair, a theory of mind thing, what the white n-word was, so pure hearted, so stupid, tablemanners and forks, language acquisition, standard Burroughs, what the plot of Robert Sheckley’s Deep Space 9 novel was, supportable, cute, knew what was up, savviness, working for Sears, The Efficiency Expert, the George R.R. Martin problem, Tarzan stories, getting conked on the head element, Tarzan And The Jewels Of Opar, Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes, convert you to spiritualism, believing in fairies, it would be cool if it was real, what’s going on with Musk and Mars, aspergersist, normal cognition, hard to interact with, modelling Musks mind, he really wants to go to Mars, get humans out of the one basket we’re in, poor excuse, imprinted on science fiction early, Kim Stanley Robinson’s Aurora, even if covered in diamonds, the real issue, really cool, cave diving, tour caves, climb Mount Everest, a goal like any other, living on the top of Mount Everest, like Walter White at the end of Breaking Bad, he wanted to be a success, billionaire owner, to prove that, huge mistake, powerful people brain damage, an atrophy thing, deferring to you, three Chicken Dinners in a row, showing tremendous skill, keep ego in check, other things, dude, you aint that great, become disconnected from reality, like a Hollywood celebrity, rock diva, externalize that, would you overestimate or underestimate your abilities, a trick question, I can do things I can’t do, preventing you from doing things you can do, I can lift that, I can’t lift that, ability to lift things, don’t ask for help, a good self-assessment, surgery on my own back even with a lot of mirrors, what if I do it wrong, standing by with a hose, we’re on the airplane, the pilots are dead, fly a plane, they work the same way, more engines, the radio is more difficult than the airplane, helicopter, a motorcycle accelerator, your yaw, the back and forth oscillation, compelling reason, when the engine goes, autorotation, falling at a slower rate, not a parachute, the airbrake, fixed wing aircraft, gliding, as long as you have altitude you have forward momentum, weather, your fine, land on the ocean, flying lessons, working for companies, a rich man’s ambition, to get the license, any kinda school, wealthy eye-doctors, military teaches it, working for a military, asking for permission, ride a bike, swim, drive a car, another thing to learn, very close to new flying car phenomena, mountain home, battery powered, to save weight, ultralight aircraft, make airplanes, under a certain weight, fixed propellers, [Pivotal Blackfly], they don’t swivel, a drone that you’re sitting in, high end dentists, drones as the way into flying cars, Jetson One, a license to ride a bicycle, nobody has a license to bicycle, insurance law, insurance is free money, scooters, mopeds, skirt the insurance laws, electric bicycles, not a helluva lot, electric motorcycle, torque for days, limiters, [electric unicycle], hoverboards, dangerously fast, in 2025, drone license, no seat, Segway, when motorcycles were went they first came out, chariot racing with motorcycles as the horses, Ben-Hurley Davidson, scared of skateboard, faster than walking, rollerskates, a commuter, the scrapheap of coolness, skiing, fun, cross country skiing, snowshoeing, horseback riding, the way you got places, Marissa’s Instagram, she and her man, cross country skiing with her dog, recreation, enjoying nature, downhill and cross country, ski and then shoot, slogging your way across territory, super dangerous but fun, recreation vs. necessity, rich dentist’s recreation, horses on the interstate, nothing drawn by animals, area Amish, everything is hamster, the default, cats were cool, hundreds?, negotiation, respects her feelings, runaway with a boyfriend, smilodon boyfriend, Amazon box, the lifestyle, the behavior continues, not a good solution, semi-domesticated, do better than the dogs, competing for prey, feral life, lose an eye, depth perception, your claws and your teeth, no birth certificate, breaking up the family, she had children, unrelated cats, fixed later, we know better than them is what we’re saying, we’re fixing them, ova-hystorectimy, Millions Of Cats by Wanda Gág, a very old Will and a very old Meg, so very lonely, smoking a pipe, goes on a walk, page 10, that’s a lot of cats, cats and kittens everywhere, all black and white, a fuzzy grey kitten, way down in the corner, too lovely to leave, black and very beautiful, one riding on his head, too many cats, the cats get to fighting, eat eachother to death until there’s no cats left, eaten each other all up, one little frightened kitten, dear little kitty, just a very homely little cat, nobody bothered about me, soft and shiny, plenty of milk, the most beautiful cat in the world, not one is a the pretty as this one, The Cats Of Ulthar by H.P. Lovecraft, H. Warner Munn, about 20 photos, The Lurking Fear, Catskills, remote northern place, interesting, definitely funny, The Shadow Over Innsmouth, a guy who doesn’t know he’s a member of the community, oh and I have heterochromia too, why the mole people didn’t eat him, one eye was blue the other was brown, wrestled with it, this is brilliant, super amazing, really good at mood, he’s one of them, go visit these backwoods people, takes his friend with him, lying in the same bed, the shadow on the chimney, a description of his friend, straight out of The Rats In The Walls, a guy who eats his friend, very muscly, he’s meaty, he’s bringing his family food from the outside, cannibal nutrition, really dig it, Wayne June’s audiobooks, The Thing At The Doorstep, one of his best, the movie, Suitable Flesh (2023), Re-Animator (1985), I like horror after-all, a pure comedy but a horror, army of dead that come and get him, he totally nailed it, a comedy magazine, Home Brew, almost like a zine, during prohibition, the joke is a nod and wink, The Haunter Of The Dark, the church steeple, vibing on it, Providence geography, a mythos story, the scan of Home Brew, the serialization, a peek of what it looked like, piquant gossip, illustrated by Clark Ashton Smith, the trees, penises and vaginas everywhere, how fucked up the scan is, undistorting it, Rhineheart Kleiner smoking a pipe, a complete scan of this, later publications, a secret about Wayne June now that he’s dead, not a fan of At The Mountains Of Madness, deep in his cups, strange hieroglyphics, the narrator is not a Lovecraft character, Scott Miller is going to put out The Call Of Cthulhu, its the one everyone is focused on, all his themes, art, artists, cosmic time, cosmic space, madness, almost the main thing, cares a lot about art and artists, he’s all about the art, The Music Of Erich Zann, The Outsider, “dreamlands” story?, The White Ship, Celephais, Ex Oblivione, reskinned name, Dark Worlds Of H.P. Lovecraft: Volume 5, The Shambler From The Stars by Robert Bloch, mythos or dreamlands, winks and nods, August Derleth fucked things around, big series, take the story individually, not a businessman, he was the opposite of a businessman, conservative guys, near the end, different directions, vital active businessman, trying to be pure, not commercial at all, a poet from the 17th century, amateur journalist, he’s a blogger who wouldn’t put ads on his blog, in the kitchen, Voluminous: The Letters Of H.P. Lovecraft, props, artifacts, a library card, postage stamps, a map, printed collectibles, German expressionism, The Call Of Cthulhu (2005), brain jar, The Whisperer In Darkness, 100 year old idea, that’s what you put on your t-shirt, good last name, change your jar water, they read the letter, that was edifying, a little liberal?, very worried about racism and stuff like that, so prevalent, his personality, dry and comical, funny opinions about things, holding court with his friends, couldabin fun, like spending time with that guy, Margaret St. Clair, my homie, Burroughs, see him at a party, I like his books, Burroughs wouldn’t like me, don’t want to worship Tarzan, Tarzan doesn’t want you to worship him, recruiting blah blah blah, when Hemingway is liberating Paris, his old haunts and liberate them and drink there, they go into the Ritz, please leave the Thompson at the door, go liberate another part of Paris, 16+, the one where Jake Sisko is now 18, war correspondent, Klingons are attacking some colony, an ambulance driver during WWII, Ernest Hemingway, Bobby Derie, Clark Ashton Smith and Margaret St. Clair’s correspondence, after Sir Richard Burton, 1001 Nights, the Lovecraft statement, Smith is largely responsible for liches, the names of his stories, collected fantasies, Empire Of The Necronmancers, Skull-Face, Scarlet Tears, cliche, undead things, the old meaning, in fantasy fiction, The Lord Of The Rings, the barrows in the barrow downs, “wights” – the barrow man, a ghost or a zombie, living dead bodies, something Jesse thinks about a lot, author estates, liches get stitches, Ambrose Bierce, puts you under a spell, who am I now?, that bullet ridden lich in the madhouse, a deeply weird story, the visualization, drive out to the countryside, go down some steps, the movie adaptation, kind of adaptations by Jacen Burrows and Alan Moore, a naked gold woman, a pillar, that elm arched darkness, the glub glub, real sad story, the Pit of Shoggoths, the way Alan Moore does it everything is sexual, a repressed homosexual, now he’s Irish, reinterprets all the stories, recapitulates the stories using one character, Robert Black, all these experience, he gets raped, very Alan Moore, a rape sequence, a man is raped by another man who’s a woman, another adventure, so mean to poor Lovecraft, not interested in women, anti-Burroughsian, not interested in the chase at all, her dad, a good surprise twist, hate Jesse if you don’t like it, a Will accent, from the makers of Re-Animator and From Beyond, Dennis Paoli, get bodies, just to collect bodies, comic and scary and great music, very stylish, winds you up great acting, one of the best movies of the 80s, Indiana Jones first movie, The Thing (1982), Big Trouble In Little China (1986), Escape From New York (1981), see my twitter feed for a long list, a student coming, another Bores story, so lucky he doesn’t even known, In Santiago there was once a dean, a good one 3 pages long, we need a Jesse out there, kinda high level?, is it science fiction?, The Library Of Babel doesn’t fit with Planet Stories, contains both, Jack London, all these dudes, the meeting between Borges and Burroughs, where Burroughs books would be found in the library, I’m blind, an honorarium, the official library of Argentina, the American canon has fucked up, missing the point of reading, not giving him the Nobel prize, do they throw in, The Killers by Ernest Hemingway, realism sort of stuff, guy comes back from WWI, sad ideas, a couple in a canoe, they’re gonna break up, realism literary fiction, he’s really good at it, unnecessary whipping scenes, a monster in the basement, a guy nailed to a cross, back to back, break it up, Mark Twain, Brian Lumley, The House Of Cthulhu, 80s sword and sorcery, favourite Californians, same.
Posted by Jesse Willis