The SFFaudio Podcast #868 – Jesse and Scott Danielson talk about Hombre by Elmore Leonard
Talked about on today’s show:
why did we pick this particular one?, wanting to read, audio stack, he’s a good writer, Justified, his influence on it, the dialogue is amazing on that show, terrific, the Paul Newman movie, the audio drama, a very good story, the better story version of it, the movie, keeps almost everything that’s in the book, no voice over narration, the viewpoint character, just a camera telling the story, the editors, the moviemakers, who the character is, a kid, a lot of his internal thoughts, what he’s interested in, his lame thoughts about things, we get to see the story more purely, on the stagecoach, differences, the innkeeper lady, a little out of sequence, the end of the movie, our guy dead, our man dead, cut, he was the one we were following, top 5 Star Trek original series, a trick, some good episodes not easily nameable, which one was that, the Gorn episode, Arena, most episodes are excellent, dogs or semi-interesting, Amok time, alphabetical order, Galileo, categorizing things alphabetically, Balance Of Terror, Shore Leave, the surprise, Theodore Sturgeon, fun and funny, fantasy humour episode, which of them is Hombre?, you’re correct, who is the Hombre in the Galileo 7, a movie called Stagecoach (1939), the movie, tribute to John Wayne, black and white cowboy, a zoomup, holding his saddle, winchester, lever action rifle, to attract the attention of the stagecoach, two important parts, Terminator 2, a cowboy spinning guns thing, big iron, the plot of that movie, a little bit similar, 9 strange people, Arizona?, Apache territory, stop to pick up the hero, pre-war, post-war western, like Hombre, a revisionist western, the old fashioned western, horses, Hopalong Cassidy, post-classical, subverts the myth, less simplistic view, the main character dies at the end, not typical, western comics, Louis L’Amour, Lonesome Dove, what is this book about, John Russell, racism, hypocrisy, Mexican characters, culturally, his haircut, it is revealed to us, let me tell you about John Russell, he had many names, ideas going on in this book, he is like an Indian if he’s not an Indian, he has a conversation, when you talk about those people, you won’t eat a dog, this isn’t about his identity, scolding people, being frustrated, why does John Russell do what he does?, very tricky, good book?, very good book, a book for men or for women, female characters, prominent, picturing the movie, the movie has overpowered the book, the wife, long history of life in the west, a strong character, the best character that’s female in the movie isn’t in the book, she’s kind of the love interest for the audience, we love her, to take your date to, the other people on the stagecoach, we like the Mexican boss, we don’t hate the kid all the time, we don’t like Doctor Faver, the girl with the Apaches, liking her in the end, why is Mr. Spock the Apache, he’s the outsider, in the Galileo 7 which character is the Mexican stagecoach driver?, it’s Leonard McCoy, he’s also kind of the women, you cold blooded inhuman, it ends differently, a television show, just redshirts, Mr Scott’s there too, providing the plot happening, we have no fuel, what about the phasers, there’s always possibilities, deep story here, an Ernest Haycox short story, the outsider there is the Ringo Kid, pretty rare, Ringo Star, a long list of Ringos, don’t know or care, wears a lot of rings?, an outlaw, he’s not an Indian, it’s not a racism story, it’s a weirder old fashioned western, not to modern tastes, where the story came from a Desilu connection, Lucille Ball, Five Came Back (1939), South America, people pointing to that, semi-legit, Flight Of The Phoenix (1965), Guy De Maupassant, Boule De Suif, Ball Of Fat, a gender flipped version of Hombre, the Prussian takeover of France around 1870, 1880, this short novel, what being a man means, almost heavyhanded in the book, a flashback, Tres Hombres, fights like three men, what’s going on in people’s heads, a stratified society, it’s about class, last stagecoach out of town, it’s snowing, cold rather than heat, complete inversion, as they go over the road, characters and personalities, a prostitute, everybody has reasons for hating her, a high end guy, that guy’s wife, two nuns, a contrast of females, society person, two ugly women, she’s fat, she’s got big boobs, very kissable, the author’s preference, very hungry, a basketful of food, munching, mouth is watering, she shares it out, only one cup, become very chummy, getting along, the we are all getting along, what you talkin bout we?, inside job, stole the ticket from the soldier, really good actor in the movie, The Rifleman, as a kid, Have Gun, Will Travel, Richard Boone, such a bastard, we hate him a lot, more compressed, no inside man in this holdup, stuck in the mud, a Prussian officer, what you’ve learned, everybody hates the Prussians, honest hatred for the Prussians, why they’re leaving, the rich people want to save their money, it comes to pass, won’t let the stagecoach goes, deliver her services, because he’s a Prussian, they all turn on her, why it would make Maupassant into a famous guy, a woman’s virtue, she’s the most virtuous one amongst them, she didn’t have to leave, she genuinely doesn’t like the Prussians, property seized, my property is my business, the most steadfast, get the money and run, she is forced to give up her principles, forced by the group to have sex with the Prussian, the structure of Hombre, two indians go into a bar to have a drink, holdup men, jostles his arm, our hero shows up, hits him in the face with the butt end of his rifle, contempt is not appreciated, doesn’t recognize him as John Russell, recognizes his voice, a parallelism, eating the dogs, they’re dirty, they pick at themselves, her husband is literally starving the Indians, took a great story and turned it, a western, not set in 1899, a transition period, the stage line, the right period, it’s in the west, Arizona, occupation and privation, she implies, the women cut her hair, I’m not going to tell you what it was like when the men had me alone, what was it like?, raping her all day long, contemptuous of her former society, captives by natives, sometimes people prefer it, Dances With Wolves (1990), learns to dance with wolves, we’re pushed in either direction, what was it like, it must have been horrible, matter of fact, possibly they weren’t as horrible as all that, we are invited to speculate but we are not told, the way a Rashomon-style story works, an awe, that’s why the title is important, what do we mean by a man, he does what a man does, you people fucked this all up, probably gonna get me killed, a let’s go try and fix this story, even the Mexican stagecoach guy we like, the capable one, he saved the water, need this guy, their only hope, the pattern works the same, thinking of their station, not every piece works perfectly, until they get hungry, three wives, a bigger version of this story, the mudwagon is much smaller, ovens for their feet, the water is the resource that needs to be watched, a little bit of warmth, food and her virtue, when you read a gender flipped story, a Conanna The Barbarian movie, female barbarian, tougher than any man, males are disposable, that’s what a man does, men are more disposable, let’s go get in a car wrecked, let’s drive carefuller, send yourself out there, that’s what this story is about, that’s what makes him a man or three men, that’s why this story works, why it is such a good story, an aspect of it, the racism, the moral certainty of these people of his character, they ask him to get out of the stagecoach, the Mexican’s reaction, just ride on top, what does it matter, don’t rock the boat, our narrator kid, a former official of the company, I’m officially fired, see that man get kicked out, he doesn’t bully, he’s not a Richard Boone bully, so good, cold dead hand, the shit bullied out of him, just takes his ticket, you called me a bad name, we’re all in this together, we we we, individualism, libertarianism, the message, this is what a man is, this is what a man is like, don’t be like these other men, or is he doing it for the girl?, the right thing to do, what it is, why does he get out of the stagecoach, argued into it, no skin off his nose, just want to have coffee, the final scene in the mining area, to try to save the girl, her whole lifestyle is funded by her husband’s graft, Indian agents, not even a real doctor, a doctor of divinity, a man’s work, preventing a woman from dying, because somebody needs to do it, none of these other people are men, kill us anyway, coulda chucked the money down, they want the water too, why it is so disturbing, in 1967, a disturbing movie, the same story as Tom Godwin’s The Cold Equations, suddenly convert phaser juice into fuel for your aircraft, gender flip it, made the pilot a female, he was going to visit his sister on Woden, we don’t think it a horror, a man killing a girl, it needs to be done, 7 people are more valuable than 1, the same setup, let’s grind em up in a meatgrinder, almost always men, opposition to women being sent into combat, via a draft, distanced from it, in the recent bombing of Iran one of the pilots was a woman, women can do it, the audio drama, only an hour long, keeps the narrator, summarize, set scenes, tricks to making audio drama work, the simplest way (not the best way), the movie does the best version, the movie is clearly the best, the book is good in some of the details, the way of the story being told, Maupassant doesn’t do it that way, third person omniscient narrator, that setup, where the book excels is in the dialogue, Fire In The Hole, they bought the character, two novels, this weird thing with his writing, he starts off for an idea for a story, he’s not really a story guy, he’s a character guy, Karen Sisco, Karen Makes Out, Out Of Sight, let me see how this character walks and talks, Carla Gugino, Pronto, Riding The Rap, Peter Falk, a paid researcher, more co-author than researcher, Tishomingo Blues, local dixie-mafia, high stakes civil war reenactors, Bounty Hunters, The Moonshine War, Swag, The Switch, City Primeval, Gold Coat, Freaky Deaky, Bandits, Get Shorty, Out Of Sight, imdb Elmore Leonard, a Tarantino movie, Three Ten To Yuma, invasion of Cuba, Teddy Roosevelt, A Coyote’s In The House, Westlake and Block, hand gestures vs. dialogue, more westerns of his, male confronting male, a good western, Be Cool, John Travolta, a tv show too, a gangster who moves to Hollywood, I really like movies, a sequel, fairly inconsistent, Block is the most consistent, I thought Elmore Leonard was awesome, a tough guy learning about civil war era underwear, a “farb”, The Rosary Murders, a very scott book, Umberto Eco, The Name Of The Rose, a Scott book, Sean Connery, a mini-series, a nod to Jorge Luis Borges, John Turturro, 8 episodes, do that book one day, a couple of weeks of prep, a short story in between, Elmore Leonard’s The Rustlers, the audiobook version, there isn’t much to say about it, it’s just good, this is Guy De Maupassant retold, Stagecoach is also Maupassant americanized, instead of switching from race to class, Airport (1970) and Airplane (1979), a train or plane full of different kinds of people who react and depend on one person, the burnt out guy from WWII has to fly the plane again, become the man, nuns who speak Jive, characters on the train, characters in a situation, The Towering Inferno (1974) is stationary, The Poseidon Adventure (1972), Hombre hits hard, a man’s gotta do what a man’s gotta do, listening to stupid people, we gotta fix this shit, buckle down don’t complain do it, the same essential core, everyone has to rely on John Wayne, he’s a criminal, everybody likes him, a similar thing in Assault On Precinct 13 (1976), The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance, High Noon (1952), Hombre the movie is more suitable for women as well, go to the used bookstore, a western section, very small, not a lot of women poring over that section, different kind of stories for us, how to be, why it is successful, a darn good story, talking about them today, the best version of the story, Paul Newman, movie star, Cool Hand Luke time, how simple the movie is, how cheap it is, couple of weeks in the desert, couple horses, no special effects, couple of squibs, fake blood, good result, he was old, he’s the guy on the salad dressing, Barbara Stanwyck, shaking people to their core, we need to have more special effects, where’s the action in this?, a punch, a jostle, hit with the butt end of a rifle, machine guns flying, literary kinda, Lord Of Light by Roger Zelazny, not read by him?, out of print for a long time, he’s a good narrator, devoted to him Victor Bevine, Matt Godfrey, maybe it didn’t exist, all of the Amber novels, A Night In Lonesome October, why people love that book so much, the first five Amber novels, started late for public domain purposes, fantasy, sword and sorcery almost, colonizing another planet, in awe of it, world religion, Hindu gods, a Philip K. Dick novel that’s kind of similar, influence on the United States, The Divine Invasion, Linda Ronstadt, The Cosmic Puppets, Virginia, similarly oblivious, intolerant, gonna be the love interest, town drunk, too much detail, demi-gods, instead of having a spiritual journey, man’s role on earth, the nature of evil, using a different set of background assumptions, their different, born in Maryland or Virginia (near DC), he went back to the town her remembered as a child, an overlay, what if things are not as they seem, how Zelazny puts books together, smoking in Amber, self-insert, with Maupassant, he’s everyone, the moral failings of people, bizarre rationalizations, incredibly pregnant, so pregnant, the moral questioning goes in every direction, he’s really good, his novels, Bel Ami, visit the family, leave the dog, there and back long day, a movie each way, listen to an audiobook, look at the road?, book club at work, Just Stab Me Now by Jill Bearup, a spoof or a satire of a romantasy, a little meta, not-uninteresting, a very new book, Burial Rites by Hannah Kent, last person executed in Iceland, still in development, none of these covers are good, just a bunch of fonts and floors, The Haar by David Sodergren, Three Body Problem, Project Hail Mary, Artemis, how couldn’t there be?, 21 hours, Theodore Bikel, Richard Poe is good, the problems with the audiobook are the main character narrator not the actual narrator, that’s coming up, metastuff, how long he’s been workin on the book, such a nothing character, she wouldn’t take my blanket last night, prudish vs. not prudish, slaps you in the face with somebody’s boob, so important to story, Edgar Allan Poe, a western and The Galileo Seven can be the same story, back burner.
Posted by Jesse Willis